The Curse of Jerry Hairston, Jr./Eric Hinske:
 

Sunday, February 10, 2013

Yankees.com: Yanks discuss contract extension with Cano

In a possible reversal of a club policy that shies away from contract extensions before deals are complete, Yankees managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner said on Friday that the team has opened the topic with second baseman Robinson Cano.

“There’s been a conversation or two,” Steinbrenner told reporters in Tampa, Fla. “We’ll get into that, and we’ll talk about that at a later date. He’s been a great Yankee, and we hope he’s here his entire career.”

I find it hard to believe that they are actually going to get him to sign an extension, but it is good to know that they’re at least open to the idea.

--Posted at 11:03 pm by Brian Cronin / 21 Comments | - (0)

Comments

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Also, the Orioles picked up Canzler on waivers. I still don’t get that move by the Yankees. Canzler still had options! I just don’t see how Ramon Flores was going to be picked in the Rule 5 Draft. I’d rather have Canzler. And it is not a knock on Flores, per se, I just don’t see a team being willing to stash him on their 25-man roster for a full season. Meanwhile, Canzler was obviously going to be picked up (and he was).

If Matt Diaz beats him out, fair enough, THEN you cut him. But give him a chance first!

I believe the Yankees only began negotiations with Cano to distract from the Canzler fiasco.

GRIBBIT projects Canzler to a .246/.312/.421 line playing half his games in Camden Yards. .265/.339/.455 vs. LH.

By the way, amusingly enough, the Orioles ALSO signed Chris Dickerson a little while back. He was invited to spring training (but is not on the 40-man roster yet) to compete for a spot, along with other former Yankee Steve Pearce. Damn, the O’s love to sign them some former Yankees!

Maybe the Yankees should put A-Rod on waivers and see if the O’s claim him!

The O’s could have a decent and cheap platoon in Dickerson/Ganzler, which should free up money to resign a useful catcher or something.

[4] I’m willing to bet ARod has been put on waivers every year for the 3-4 years.

I don’t think they can put him on waivers because of 10-5 rights.

Hank: Guys, guys ! You won’t believe it ! I made a deal by myself !
Hal: Oh, not again…
Cash: That’s…that’s great news, Hank. Uh…what…what did you do ?

Hank: I got a star ! He’s practically a household name. Canzler ! Plays second base, he’s an All Star - we can play hardball with Cano, that lazy…
Hal: Oh for chrissakes…
Cash: Hank…do you mean Kinsler ? ‘cause Canzler is a stiff, and doesn’t play second base.

Hank: No, no. I got the paperwork right here…somewhere…yeah, here it is ! Canzler.
Hal: Oy.
Cash: Yeah, Hank…uhm…you did great, buddy. Here’s $50, why don’t you go catch a couple drinks, and we’ll meet you at the steakhouse in about 15 minutes.

Hank: Gee, thanks, Bri ! I told you guys, I’m smart. I can take care of things, you know. I’ll get us the good table. I gotta go call Alex, he’ll be so proud of me. He was the one gave me the tipoff.
{Hank waddles off}

Hal: I hate that guy.
Cash: It’s no big deal. We’ll just…it’s only-
Hal: Don’t say it ! Do NOT say it’s only money, Brian. I’m still covering that stupid parking lot idea of his.

Cash: No, I…I was gonna say it’s only January. We have time. We can bury this.
Hal: Yeah, right.

Cash: Look, something’s bound to break in the news. Alex’ll spit on a waitress, Jeter will get caught at an all-you-can-eat ice cream parlor. There’s a big story gonna break - I can feel it in my bones. We just wait until the right moment, then release Canzler. It’ll get lost in the news.

Hal: I’m not so sure that’s such a great idea. What if they stay clean ? I mean, Alex has been on his best behavior in public, anyway.
Cash: We might have to leak a story to make sure. I got this number…lemme see. Yeah, we can throw them a name, somebody we’re not gonna play anyway…Cervelli. That’s our story.

Hal: Oy.

[1] On Flores, not sure if you understand the Rule V draft completely (honestly, not sure if I do either).  Everyone is familiar with the Major League round of the Rule V draft.  Players not on the 40 man roster but who have completed 4 or 5 years of MiLB service time (depending on their age when they were signed) are exposed to the Rule V draft.  If a team drafts the player, they pay a fee (I think $50K) and have to keep the player on their 25 man roster for the entire season.  If they remove him for any reason (other than DL), they need to offer him back to the original team for $25K.

However, that’s the major league version.  There are also AAA and AA rounds in the draft.  The added caveat here is that players selected in the minor league portions need to get on the “protected” lists for their levels.  I can’t find as much information, but I think basically…if the player plays in AAA the season before their rule V eligibility, selecting that player means they need to stay in MLB entire season.  If the player plays at AA, they are eligible to be picked in the AAA round, and they need to stay at AAA (or higher) entire season.  If they play at A+ (or lower), they’re eligible in the AA round.  I’m not sure for the exact criteria for what counts as “playing in AAA” for the year, but probably more than 1 game.

Basically, Flores wasn’t ready for AAA last year, but he’s Rule V eligible.  So if the Yankees didn’t protect him on the 40-man, a team could have taken him in the AAA round (he may have been eligible for AA round), and kept him in the minors for a year.  It’s the reason that players like Flores, Mesa before him, and others are added to the 40-man even though they aren’t nearly ready for MLB.  They still have enough talent that Yankees aren’t willing to expose them to the minor-league portion of the draft.

[7] They can put him on waivers.  He can refuse to report to the team that claims him however.  If he’s being put on trade-waivers after August 1st, a team could put in a claim to block him.  Say for example LAD is 1st and SF is 2nd in the West, and there are rumblings that LAD is willing to trade for ARod. SF could put in a claim and - if Alex doesn’t want to go to SF - refuse.  He’d stay a Yankee, but LAD could no longer trade for him.  He’d also go on waivers if the Yankees DFA’d him tomorrow.  Same deal; SF could claim him, but Alex could refuse.  Any other team after SF would be blocked from claiming him.  Difference is, once the waiver period were done ARod would be a FA free to sign anywhere, but Yankees would still owe him $114M.

As for Cano, I think the Yankees are scared to death of bidding against the Dodgers if he reaches free agency.  There is a new Yankees in town now and they are about to out Yankee the Yankees. 

Unfortunately, I don’t think Cano would sign anything reasonable before testing the market.  So I’m starting to think the Yankees choices are

1) Sign him to a stupid contract right now.
2) Sign him to a REALLY stupid contract after the season.
3) Let him go either via trade or free agency.

I don’t like any of those options.

Something about the past tense in “He’s been a great Yankee” vs. ‘He is a great Yankee’ makes me think Cano’s on the way out.  Subtle, yes, maybe too subtle, but it popped out at me when I read it for the nth time.

[11] Well they aren’t going to trade him.  We went over that in exhaustive detail last week.  So…I think it’s *possible* to sign him to a not-stupid contract.  That doesn’t mean it would be a SMART contract, but I think there are shades of gray between “smart” and “stupid”.  I don’t think it’s impossible to sign him to something like 6/150, with 2 option years ($5M buyout each).  So guaranteed 6/160 with chance at 8/200.  If they did it now and bought some of the risk, it may be doable.  IDK if that would be a smart contract, but it wouldn’t be stupid either, and most of us could live with it.

[13] - I don’t think they should trade him either but I just don’t think Cano would sign a reasonable contract right now.  Especially when he Dodgers literally can’t find enough people to spend money on.  Why would he settle for a chance at 8/200 if he stays healthy and productive at the back end of the deal?  There is a much better chance he will be healthy and productive this year. 

Signing a reasonable deal now just isn’t a Bora’s clients style.

On Flores, not sure if you understand the Rule V draft completely (honestly, not sure if I do either).  Everyone is familiar with the Major League round of the Rule V draft.  Players not on the 40 man roster but who have completed 4 or 5 years of MiLB service time (depending on their age when they were signed) are exposed to the Rule V draft.  If a team drafts the player, they pay a fee (I think $50K) and have to keep the player on their 25 man roster for the entire season.  If they remove him for any reason (other than DL), they need to offer him back to the original team for $25K.

However, that’s the major league version.  There are also AAA and AA rounds in the draft.  The added caveat here is that players selected in the minor league portions need to get on the “protected” lists for their levels.  I can’t find as much information, but I think basically…if the player plays in AAA the season before their rule V eligibility, selecting that player means they need to stay in MLB entire season.  If the player plays at AA, they are eligible to be picked in the AAA round, and they need to stay at AAA (or higher) entire season.  If they play at A+ (or lower), they’re eligible in the AA round.  I’m not sure for the exact criteria for what counts as “playing in AAA” for the year, but probably more than 1 game.

Basically, Flores wasn’t ready for AAA last year, but he’s Rule V eligible.  So if the Yankees didn’t protect him on the 40-man, a team could have taken him in the AAA round (he may have been eligible for AA round), and kept him in the minors for a year.  It’s the reason that players like Flores, Mesa before him, and others are added to the 40-man even though they aren’t nearly ready for MLB.  They still have enough talent that Yankees aren’t willing to expose them to the minor-league portion of the draft.

Interesting, Mike. The move would certainly make more sense if you’re right, but I dunno, I’ve read a lot of article about the Yankees protecting Flores from the Rule V Draft and none of them mention this AA/AAA provision. Is there an article on the subject that you can link me to? It’s a fascinating topic.

Signing a reasonable deal now just isn’t a Bora’s clients style.

Except for the players who have done so (like Weaver).  Though of course you can argue whether it was reasonable.  Also, there is also risk that the Dodgers keep going for broke and acquire a long-term 2B sometime during the season, taking them out of the bidding (isn’t out of realm of possibility Texas trades Kinsler and moves Profar to 2B).

Obviously, Cano wants to get paid.  I think also obviously, he likes being on the Yankees.  I don’t think he’ll necessarily go for the HIGHEST bidder.  I think that there’s a number he has in mind that tells him he’ll sign with Yankees now, and after he becomes a FA there’s a number that represents the max discount he’ll take with Yankees.  IDK what either of those numbers are.  Maybe 6/160 now (with the chance for another $40MM) is a number he’s good with.  Maybe it’s 10/225.  Maybe in the off-season his max-difference is $25MM.  Maybe it’s $2MM.  Honestly, we won’t know until Cano signs…

[15] I haven’t found much yet.  Here’s the article on the Rule V on FanGraphs:

The Rule 5 Draft occurs in three phases, the MLB phase, where eligible players can be selected and placed on the 25-man roster for a $50,000 fee, and the Triple-A and Double-A phases, where players can be selected for a fee if they are not on the protected list, but in this phase, they do not need to go to the 25-man roster.

The best information unfortunately comes from SOSH Wiki (why don’t we have a Wiki?):

There are also two minor league phases to the Rule 5 draft: the AAA and AA phase. In addition to setting a 40-man roster, organizations are required to submit a AAA and AA roster of players eligible for the Rule 5 draft. Note that these rosters are larger than regular-season AAA and AA rosters and their composition during this phase is determined by the organizations evaluation of a player, not the player’s current level; the organization will place players they value more highly on the AAA roster.

After the Major League phase, the AAA phase takes place, in which other organizations can pluck players on other teams’ AA rosters. During the AA phase, organizations can take Rule 5-eligible players on neither roster. The minor league Rule 5 draft is primarily a roster-filling exercise and players taken rarely reach the major leagues, not to mention establish themselves as big-league players. Unlike the Major League phase, players drafted in the AAA phase are not required to play at AAA, nor are AA draftees required to play in AA. It costs $12,000 to select a player in the AAA phase and $4,000 in the AA phase.

So a little more detail, but not sufficient to explain why a player like Flores (or in the past Mesa, or Zoilo Almonte) is being added to the 40-man roster.  To me, you have to trust that the Yankee brass has a better understanding of what the rules and risks are, than we do.  As much as we complain about losing a platoon player like Canzler, I think we’d complain MORE if Flores was selected in the AAA portion by Tampa (who couldn’t see that happening?), and in 3 years is a starting LF for them.

In addition to setting a 40-man roster, organizations are required to submit a AAA and AA roster of players eligible for the Rule 5 draft.

That sure sounds like the AAA and AA eligible players are different than the guys that they’re protecting on the 40-man, like Flores.

I think you’re wrong on this one and that Flores was being protected from the traditional Major League Rule V draft.

That said, you could obviously make the argument that the Yankees feared that a team WOULD take a flier on Flores (obviously, teams have carried not-ready-for-prime-time players on their 25-man roster for a year and then sent them to the minors the following season).

[18] Yes the list is definitely different.  Unfortunately, I don’t know what the rules for the list are, what the pros and cons are of putting them on each list, etc.  Definitely a player is protected from ALL phases on the 40-man roster.

It’s possible I’m wrong.  But the Yankees over the years have put a number of toolsy players who they signed young, but weren’t nearly ready for MLB, on the 40-man roster.  So either 1) they are seriously overrating the abilities of their players and what other teams think of them 2) they don’t understand how the system works or 3) maybe they know better how this system works than we do.

I’d bet (3)...

I don’t see why you find it unlikely that the Yankees didn’t want to risk losing Flores to another team willing to carry him on their Major League roster for a year and then return him to the minors the following year (or, if they’re lucky, keep him in the Majors because he was good enough to play).

When Ivan Nova was chosen in the Rule 5 Draft, he had not pitched past A ball and yet the Padres (who chose him) had to keep him on the Major League roster.

That’s the same thing here.

And the same reasoning they used to leave Nova unprotected (they did not find it likely that any team would keep Nova on their major league roster for a season) I think applies here.

The Yankees can know how the system work while still not making the right decision each time. Here, I think they overrated Flores’ chances of being picked by a team. Obviously, since we never actually saw other teams get a shot at him,  we’ll never know for sure if they guessed right or not. Flores is obviously a decent enough prospect, so if they guessed right, then he’s definitely worth a spot.

[20] Hey I admit you may likely be right.  I also think though that there have definitely been lesser players than Flores (or Nova) who the Yankees have protected on the 40 man, so that indicates to me there may be more to it.  I mean, it’s very possible that they learned a lesson from Nova and that’s why they are protecting Flores.  But I think it’s also possible there are reasons above and beyond thinking a team could take him in the MLB portion. 

Yes, the Yankees could know the system and still make a wrong decision.  But again, with a lot of the lesser players they have protected, they’d need to be making a LOT of wrong decisions.  Which is possible; very possible that Mark Newman overrates his prospects and tells Cashman they NEED to be protected.

Certainly though, unless Newman or Cashman comes out and says exactly why they protected Flores, we won’t know.  Maybe a team like KC or SD showed an interest in Flores (but not enough for Yankees to trade him), and that made them think Flores would be a target.  Also of course, they made the decision on Flores months ago, so it’s not like they chose Flores over Canzler.

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