I thought BC looked fine for a first game back.  Too many walks and obviously the two HR, but otherwise pretty encouraging.  The blame for this loss lies with Girardi and the offense.

Girardi?

I hate to root against the Yankees, but I’ve had more than enough of Pettitte for two lifetimes. Not sure why, but I never cared for him. I know it’s probably to the detriment of the team, but I hope he’s gone by the ASB.

Today didn’t surprise me in the slightest. I’m just hoping that Joe will pull the plug before this becomes David Cone (whom I loved) 2000.

Didn’t see the game either but I love how Smoak just needed Yankee pitching to break out of his funk. Yikes.

Just saw the Teixeira strikeout with the bases loaded in the 8th. Double yikes.

I agree with number 3.

Is Mark Teixeira the worst player in MLB? Maybe.

I loved Cone too.  And I loved Pettite.  Emphasis past tense.

I think Girardi is crazy when he says he expects 2010 Andy, but I think Andy can be a serviceable 5th starter. He’ll nicely complement the 3 other 5th starters the Yankees have.

[8] the fifth starter is the good one right? like the fifth inning guy?

Some of these comments are crazy

[10] Assuming this is directed at me: am I supposed to be able to rationalize why I like the bullpen masturbator and not the “aw, shucks” Jesus snitch? I could try, but then you’d still wonder why my favorite 2012 Yankee is Andruw Jones.

This isn’t a rational process.

[11] Could be that Jon came here looking for a baseball discussion and can’t filter out all the noise..

Re: Pettitte’s velocity, I remember him being 90-91 mph with his fastball in 2010. He was 88-90 mph on the YES gun yesterday (I think he snuck a 91 mph in there.) There’s probably some adrenaline in there* (side story coming.)

Anyway, I checked PitchFX on his average fastball velocitY:
2007: 90.2
2008: 88.9
2009: 89.0
2010: 89.0
2012 (yesterday’s start): 88.4

Probably some arm strength still on it’s way, so consider me officially unconcerned with Pettitte’s velocity.

*Side story: I totally believe in adrenaline making you throw a lot harder. Had a game a couple of years ago while I was catching. I’ve got my own shoulder issues, but I fight through it, whatever. Get into an argument with a guy at bat from the other team over something stupid and there is jawing at the plate. Guy walks and takes off for 2nd on the first pitch and I throw him out. Hardest throw I ever made and I didn’t even feel it, pure adrenaline. It was a very weird feeling.

Wait, really? Pettitte is a “snitch” for not perjuring himself?

sorry j- I don’t know if this was sufficiently related to baseball.

I can see not liking Pettitte’s too-pure image, but he seems so sincere about it that it never bothered me.  At the same time, he never engendered in me the passion he gets from Kay or, apparently, his teammates, the kind O’Neill or Mariano or Nettles or Munson did.

But I agree - some of these comments are crazy after one start.  Pettitte won’t possibly be what he was two years ago, hope for tolerable fifth starter?  We have no idea, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised, after two years of rest, to see him reach, after a few more starts, more or less the where he was when he left, which was pretty good.  I also wouldn’t be stunned if he couldn’t.  How can anyone be reaching such emphatic conclusions - either way - after his first start?

[14] sorry j- I don’t know if this was sufficiently related to baseball.

Dude..

[15] because devoting energy to rooting for sports teams is the quintessence of irrational behavior to begin with.

Objectively, of course it was one start. He’s a pitcher who performed near greatness at his peak. I’m sure he can do creditably if things fall into place. I’m just saying that it didn’t really bum me out that he was throwing high 80s, nibbling, and getting into bad counts against Casper Wells, etc. From the beginning, he looked like the same guy who was laboring through AA lineups and who got the quick track promotion because of his resume and his fan fave status. With the exception of one inning (3rd), I thought he looked very weak against a team with an 88 OPS+.

Ackley almost led off the game with a HR. He then walked Wells. Montero led off the second with a sharp liner to Jeter. He followed that by falling behind on Smoak and then walking Liddi.

This very easily could have gotten out of control early based on how he was throwing. Then, in the 6th after 65 pitches, he just looked brutally bad. I know there’s speculation that he was tiring. But he’s a starting pitcher. He shouldn’t be fast tracked to the majors if he’s having fatigue issues past 65 pitches.

[14] Plenty of people with connections to the PED “issue” have managed to disentangle themselves from the nonsense. I don’t know how many other people named in the Mitchell report felt the need to hold press conferences to “apologize.” I try pretty hard not to follow this sort of stuff, but my impression is that Andy Pettitte joins Bobby Estalella as the only past or present member of the MLB players union to testify against a fellow player.

[17] Well, regardless of what Pettitte ends up doing, he’s a pretty good bet to be a better 5th starter option than Freddy Garcia, which is all they’re really asking him to do. Last time we did something like we paid Roger Clemens $18M for half a season. This is a pretty team friendly situation.

The other thing that was nice about how things transpired is that now we can talk about David Phelps and how he might play into the future. It’s so much better running our own guys out there for even 20-30 innings to see how they respond then going with sidney Ponson, Scott Ericksson, etc.

For those who don’t like Andy for their own personal reasons, isn’t his public image pretty similar to Mariano’s? What makes them different? Honest questions. EDIT: Obviously there’s a steroid issue here, and if you’re one of those that will disqualify a player based on this alone, I can at least can begin to understand.

It’s stunning for me to see a Yankee fan putting their personal feelings about a player above the team’s success. Especially a True Yankee (TM) like Andy Pettitte. John Rocker, OK. Luke Scott, fine. I’d feel dirty about having those mugs on my team too. But Andy Pettitte? This is the guy that deserves your scorn, the guy you hope performs badly enough to be off the team in a few months?

[19] Besides the PEDs, didn’t he also cheat on his wife?

EDIT: Not saying I care, but it’s just something I’m recalling.

[20] Never heard of that. Maybe you’re thinking of Clemens?

Although in my search to verify your claim I did come across this: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/myfanfic/andyderek.html

[20] I don’t recall that, and a quick Google search didn’t find anything.  Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen of course.

[19] It may be stunning for you because you like the Yankees more than I do? Different people operate under different codes of fandom. If you like Andy Pettitte, that’s terrific. I’ve already admitted that there’s an illogic to my player preferences. But, yes, for however stunning it may be, I just don’t like Andy Pettitte.

As for your question about Mariano, it’s either a defect on my part or Andy’s that Mariano seems more sincere and less interested in being widely perceived as a virtuous and humble dude. I also find it more enjoyable to watch Rivera pitch than I do to watch Pettitte pitch.

[22] Yeah, same here. Maybe I’m imagining it.

Also, if you google “pettite” “wife” “cheat” without the “Andy” and you spell “pettitte” wrong, you may get some not safe for work results.

[23] Player preferences are somewhat illogical.  Everyone has a player they don’t like. I was never a big Clemens fan. But in 2007 I don’t think I ever said “I hope that guy starts sucking so the Yankees have to go get Sidney Ponson”

Is it really crazy to think a 40+ year old who just took a year off of baseball is not going to be great? I’d love to Pettitte to come back and pitch like he did 2 years ago, I just don’t think it’s particularly likely. I don’t see any issue in expecting him to be more of a back of the rotation guy instead of a 2/3.

I think those of us here are no stranger to irrational fan preferences.  I really, really disliked Jeter for a long time, even when he was great.  Well, he’s still great.  But you know what I mean.  And my all-time favorite Yankee is Paulie, and I don’t think anyone here ever agrees with me, but that’s the way it is. 

As for Pettitte, he didn’t pitch well in the minors, and he didn’t pitch well against the Mariners, and I’m not looking forward to seeing more of his work.  I don’t hate him or anything, but I do think taking HGH is rather at odds with his squeaky clean image.

[26] I think Clemens is the one player that I did in fact root against, hoping that the Yankees would wind up replacing him.  Not rooting that he would suck as much that he’d come down with a career-ending injury.  No other player on the Yankees has ever led me to do that.

I think Andy Pettitte has been a good pitcher for a long time. I don’t like or dislike him because I know next to nothing about him, but I do enjoy the gunslinger eyes between the mitt and the cap routine. Very dramatic. Good baseball theater.

That said, I expect almost nothing but mediocre to crappy pitching from him this year.

[28] Randy Johnson was an easy player to dislike.  I think by the middle of his 2nd season on the team, a lot of people were hoping ye’d go away.

I dislike Tex, as much as we need him to hit for ‘us’ to win. A team can’t win with its #5 hitter batting like an AL SS of the 1960s.  I just wish he would go away.

[30] If we’ve opened the list to include ‘hired guns’, then that list is long and distinguished, no? Pavano and Brown are tops for me.

Tex is currently a replacement-level 1B with a no-trade clause and a ridiculous contract. He’s not going anywhere.

Way off topic:  I usually check the Worldwide Leader for general sports news—did the Clips pull it off, did City win the Prem—but I don’t like giving them traffic.  Is there any other sports site that’s as comprehensive for when I need a quick update on non-baseball?

[34] Yahoo?

I like http://www.cbssports.com/

edit: Although, it doesn’t seem very international

I don’t begrudge anyone their irrational dislike.  I definitely fall into the category of fan that roots for for a strong performance from pretty much everyone that wears the Yankee uniform, at least while I’m watching.  When I want to root for poor performance, I don’t watch.  Like with the Knicks, ever since they signed Houston to that horrific contract.  God I hate the Dolans.  The only real deal breakers for me would be if a player had raped, sexually assaulted or murdered anyone.  I have no idea how Steelers or Lakers fans watch their teams without having “rapist” constantly churn through their minds.

Albert Pujols vs. LHP: 43 PA, .163/.171/.334, .140 wOBA
Teixeira vs. LHP: 44 PA, .214/.227/.381, .256 wOBA

So it could be worse, right folks?

Yeah, our guy isn’t signed for 10 years either.

[32] Pavano I really think just had an amazing run of bad luck.  He sure seemed like a wanted to pitch, and was a good guy.  Brown I more felt sorry for than disliked.  Randy Johnson just seemed to be an asshole.  You can tolerate that if he’s putting up a season like 2005, but not really 2006.

I seem to recall that there was a rumor going around that (extremely approximately) Pettitte had retired because his wife didn’t want him in NY where he was having an affair.

I’ve always liked Pettitte - I never thought he was as good as broadcasters seemed to think, but not in the “Jeter has five gold gloves” category.  If there’s some rational reason to dislike him (as I think I have some rational reasons to dislike Jeter even if on balance my view of him is irrational) I guess I don’t want to know.  Pettitte put up a lot of WARs for the Yankees, I’ve never had any sense of him being anything but a great teammate, and his move to first is probably one of the best in the history of baseball.

“As for the rest of the team, it’s pretty annoying to see them light up James Shields, David Price and Felix Hernandez then get stifled by Kevin Freaking Millwood,” you just can’t predict baseball and you shouldn’t even try.

I didn’t particularly care for Johnson or Brown.  They were hired guns and they were old & cranky. When the Yankees trade for an expensive & old former star, I prepare for either a “meh” season because they’ll never replicate whatever seasons made them famous or they’ll be constantly injured and be really disappointing. 

How many high profile acquisitions have the Yankees signed through free agency or trades have put together one of their top-5 seasons, let alone their best, for the Yankees?  Sabathia and then ARod are about it (but those two seasons look like they’re going to have to keep fans warm for a long time while the Yankees are paying ARod ridiculous money for mediocre seasons).

Wow… maybe I was looking through rose-colored (pinstriped?) glasses, but I thought BattleCat looked pretty good.  Remember, one of the two HRs was off the foul pole.

Yes, it was the Mariners.  Granted.  But since I’m not expecting much and don’t dislike Pettitte, I thought it was encouraging.  WOE, on the other hand… man.  I’m at the point now where I’ve started to really dislike Tex for the crime of sucking.

Oh, and when do we get our 3 weeks of “Russell Martin CAN hit, really!” ?

Did anyone else see shots of Tex in the dugout after one of his pop-outs where he seemed like he was having trouble breathing?  What’s up with his chest condition?  Should they be putting him on the DL or something other than running him out there every day?

Maybe he’s got an appendix stuck in his throat.

The web says he’s got “severely inflamed bronchial airways”, perhaps related to having the flu a month ago.  He’s taking prednisone, which apparently is metabolized into a steroid.  Perhaps he’ll be bunting for doubles soon…

[45]  The chest thing could certainly be hampering Teixeira’s performance, even if only slightly.  And as Jonathan points out in [38], Tex isn’t the only highly-paid 1B who’s struggling early on this year.

My question for the Teixeira haters around these parts is, what do you think is wrong with him?  He’s still only in his age 32 season, there’s no reason he should be falling off a cliff at this point unless he’s injured or something.  It seems to me that bad luck on BABIP, exacerbated by the shifts employed against him, combined with the normal aging process has us unfairly panicking about his ability.

If he has in fact fallen off a cliff at age 32, and this is the new normal for MLB aging curves (because of the banning of PED’s?), then the Yankees are not going to be alone in suffering through bad contracts for guys in their early 30’s.

[48] He’s been equally bad from either side this year ~.608 OPS, but last year he was a .967 OPS hitter from the right side and a .779 hitter from the left with similar splits in 2010 (.940 and .799). Prior to 2010 Tex had been a solid .850-.950 performer from both sides of the plate. Something has clearly changed and gotten consistently worse. The complete suckitude we are seeing this year is probably a bit SSS caused but I see no cause for hope for his lefty hitting.

Remember in 2009 and Ortiz was written off as being cooked when he had a .184/.284/.287 line through the end of May?  Teix’s babip has certainly taken a hit for his extreme lefty-hitting pull on the ball and he’s never going to be his 2009 self again…but his career splits significantly favor the latter part of the season.  Girardi should just start the season with him batting 9th, and then every 6 weeks or so move him up a spot in the order.

[49]  Yeah, it’s certainly discouraging.

And I’m trying to see if there’s something to learn from this case of Teixeira suddenly dropping off in production in his early 30’s without any traumatic injury to point to.  Is this new?  Is it related to the lack of PED’s in the game (don’t forget, these guys can’t even take speed anymore, which was part of the game going way back)?  Because again, if so, there’s going to be a lot of bad contracts out there.  And the Yankees, for example, should consider letting both Cano and Granderson walk.

Or, again, is this just normal decline, bad luck, slump, shift effect, etc, and there’s nothing new to be learned?

Make him bat RH all the time.

Lots of rain here in DC. Baltimore is getting the same I think.

[50]  Yeah, Ortiz and Konerko both had three-year decline phases in their early 30’s, then bounced back very well.  Ryan Howard’s been declining but has yet to turn it around.  Are we watching Pujols in decline?

Pujols has been in decline the last few years.  If this is his new talent level I wouldn’t call this a decline, even a cliff doesn’t do this justice, this is a journey to the center of the earth type fall.

did tex change his swing when he saw the short porch in Yankee stadium?

He would not be the first 1b-man who had a huge decline in his early 30s, though most of the guys I can think of were fat. (Boog Powell; Mo Vaughn)

And there also seem to be quite a few 2b who suddenly fall off a cliff (Baerga, Alomar)..please not robbie!

[54]
DECLINE? That is not an appropriate word for what’s happened to Pujols if it’s anything more than a really, really bad slump.
 
Were productive hitters done at 32 in the 1930s?  I don’t think so.

Finally,

Is it really crazy to think a 40+ year old who just took a year off of baseball is not going to be great?

No one said that.  He was really good the year he left, right?  So we’re writing off the notion of his being not as good as he was 12 years ago, but less than 2 years ago?  Yes, it seems odd to me to write that off.  Do I think he WILL be that good?  No idea.  And “no idea” seems to me the only reasonable answer.
Not just after one start, but effectively after no starts, because it LOOK very, very much like they brought him up very prematurely for no partiular reason.  I have no idea why they wouldn’t have given him more time to build up arm strength and generally prepare before bringing him up.

It wouldn’t amaze me if pitchers do quite well after extended time off (not due to injury), under the theory that pitching is just damaging to the arm and extra recovery can only help.

Tex’s decline is not “sudden.” His production has been declining every year since 2007, and so have his peripheral stats (BABIP, LD%). He’s well past his peak and his own hitting coach told the NYT that he is incapable of exploiting the holes created by the shift. Yes, he’s doing worse this year than expected even when you take all that into account, which is why he should bounce back a bit, but another year with SLG < .500 and OPS < .850 would not be surprising at all.