I really think Pettitte needs to pitch better than this before you make a move.

We don’t know if he’s pitched poorly, or if his defense has stunk or if he’s throwing nothing but changeups to work on it or whatever.  If his velocity is good and his command of his main pitches is also good and he feels ok the following two or three days after his starts then he may be ready to go.

At the minor league games I’ve been to, the defense has usually been atrocious. Almost as if there’s a Nunez at every position. But then again, crappy competition/teammates could also explain the decent K numbers…

[1] I’m not concerned about the results after just 12 MiLB innings (which actually haven’t been bad—in fact, according to FIP, he’s been dominant.)  I’m mainly concerned that his velocity is only 85-87 for the most part (although he got it up as high as 89).  During his last 3 MLB seasons, he was consistently averaging 89 mph, which isn’t great, but it’s at least a step or two above junkballer.

re [2] and [4]. Velocity reported in the mid-80’s, which is not good.

I doubt he’s built his arm strength up yet.  Why not let him get 1-2 more starts in AAA?

At this point there’s no way Pettitte replaces Hughes, even if it is the “right” move. Hughes has been improving and actually looking a bit like the guy we saw in 2007. I don’t think the Yankees are going to send Hughes to the BP before the AS break unless he starts going 2.2 innings again.

5- but he’s a crafty sore armed wily veteran. He doesn’t need to throw hard, just ask Freddie Garci…. Oh.

Garcia’s been nails out of the bullpen.

I think it goes like this.

Pettitte to the rotation for Phelps, with Hughes staying in the rotation.
Phelps to AAA to start every fifth day and wait for the inevitable injury.
Garcia as long man.

I know I’ve been talking about Ivan Nova’s good peripherals and I think he’s been better than his ERA would indicate but if he keeps giving up 5.58 runs per nine he may be a candidate to get optioned too.

Townie’s game was the first since 1925 in which 2 position players pitched against each other.  Of course Darnell McDonald and Chris Davis don’t exactly have the creds of Ty Cobb and George Sisler who pitched against each other on closing day 1925.

unless he starts going 2.2 innings again.

Hahahaha, you used “unless.”

[6]  There’s no way you should replace Hughes if he’s throwing 94-95 at 100 pitches.

[8]  Sounds right.

RAB has the KC gun running hot.  Dunno if that means F/X or what.

[12] Everything’s hotter in KC. It’s almost oppressive,

Hughes problem has never been that he has no ability to pitch well.  His problem has always been consistently.  I agree give him another start to see if he can consistently bring it like he did yesterday but my fear is he knew he was pitching for his rotation spot yesterday and went all out.  Maybe he can.  I hope.  Even those that already gave up on him would love to see a productive Hughes.

But right now you can’t take him out of the rotation when he has a streak of one good starts going especially when he has a streak of two non disaster starts going as well.

[12] I think it’s generally said by people who may or may not know what they are talking about that KC’s pitch f/x is a bit off.

[12] Even if it was running hot, Hughes was still throwing as strong at the end of the game as the start. And being efficient about it. I would definitely say the last two starts are an improvement, but don’t really expect any sort of consistency either.

I also don’t really have much of a problem with keeping the 4 and 5 spots as a sort of open competition among the various candidates. I imagine Pettitte gets the spot no matter what and has to be really, really terrible to lose it (or retire again)

[14]  “Hughes problem has never been that he has no ability to pitch well.  His problem has always been consisten[c]y.”

Not sure I agree with this.  At times, Hughes’ problem has been that he doesn’t seem to have the repertoire to be a really good starter.  His FB has been decent but he doesn’t a legit strikeout pitch.  Hence the high pitch counts, etc.  Your comment above describes AJ much better than it describes Phil.

[16]  “I imagine Pettitte gets the spot no matter what and has to be really, really terrible to lose it (or retire again).”

That’s a good point.  Once Pettitte is up in the bigs, then barring injury, he’s not going down again.

I think most of you have hammered this out and my take is that Hughes depends a ton on velocity and (location) & when it isn’t there, he gets roughed up. What’s encouraging, particularly when we recall last season this time is that the velocity has been good. Let’s hope that he continues to build on the last two starts. Obviously, with the exception of CC,no one else is making me think we can get back to the postseason without improvements from #2-#5.

Pettitte- unless he is holding something back isn’t making a great case for a return to the bigs. Velocity of 85 probably won’t get him by.

Had the chance to go to Thurs and Friday games at KC. It was a joy to watch Jeter play so well in person.  I always enjoy seeing him at his best and he had six hits in those games including the HR.

[12] Brooks Baseball PitchFx has him averaging 93.3 MPH on the FB, topping out at 95.6.

I’m encouraged.

Not sure I agree with this.  At times, Hughes’ problem has been that he doesn’t seem to have the repertoire to be a really good starter.  His FB has been decent but he doesn’t a legit strikeout pitch.  Hence the high pitch counts, etc.  Your comment above describes AJ much better than it describes Phil.

I disagree with your disagreement which means I agree with myself.  SHOCKER!

Anyway, to me Hughes has had a few problems.  One, I agree with you on, is his lack of secondary pitches.  Two, has been FB velocity and movement.  His FB looks straight as an arrow and when it slow, that can lead to problems, especially if he can’t locate.  Which is his 3rd problem.  He can’t consistently locate his pitches.  At times he can put the ball in the perfect spot but other times he misses.  Often when he misses, he misses over the heart of the plate, not away.  So when he has a really straight fastball with not a ton on it and it’s right down the middle his mistakes often go a long way. 

And that’s why I say his problem is consistency.  It’s not just start to start or inning like A.J., or even batter to batter, it’s pitch to pitch.  He’ll throw a perfect pitch and then the next one he’ll miss right down the middle. That’s also for me why his peripheral stats seem better than his results.  He might still have some bad luck but it explains his HR problem and poor BABIP (to a certain extent at least). 

Yesterday his velocity was better.  I was in and out through the game so I can’t comment on his consistency with location, but what I saw was good. But is this something he can do game in and game out, inning in and inning out, pitch in and pitch out?  I can’t be convinced of that after 1 good start.

[17]  If Pettitte sucks, why wouldn’t he go back down?  Are you thinking he’d simply call it quits?

[21] - Because he can’t.  He has too much MLB experience.  I don’t think he can’t go down without clearing waivers.

[22]  If he sucks, who’s claiming him?  He’s not that cheap.

If the Yankees are trying to pass AP through waivers to send him to the minors…well, he’d retire first, I think.

[23] - A team with lower standards of acceptable performance.  Think teams like the Astros. 

And he is cheap.

I went to Pettitte’s start in Trenton.  His line looks pedestrian: 5IP, 7H, 4R, 3ER, 1BB, 3K but that can be the tough part of minor league stats sometimes.  The one unearned run does not account for how horrific the defense was behind him.  He looked fine to me and probably would’ve only allowed 4 hits and 1 run if there had been adequate defense.

Why wouldn’t the Red Sox claim Pettitte just to be jerks?

[27] Wouldn’t that mean they have to burn a 25-man spot, on a reliever who would then commence to throw 82 mph meatballs over the middle every time they put him in, again, out of spite ? Or just throw WP after WP. Then they’d release him and NYY could claim him again.

[27] If they know he’ll just retire?

If Pettitte comes back and sucks, they’ll make up some “tired arm” injury and put him on the DL. Then he can make a few rehab starts. If the velocity doesn’t return after that, he re-retires.

If Pettitte comes back and sucks, they’ll make up some “tired arm” injury and put him on the DL. Then he can make a few rehab starts. If the velocity doesn’t return after that, he re-retires.

The Pineda plan.

I’m slowly going through old files and shredding things.  What a drag.  But today I was doing 2001—I must have gone to at least 20 games that year.  Including back to back Sunday/Monday games against the Rays.  Those were the days.

[21] et seq.:  I do think he would re-retire if it’s shown that he can’t cut it as a Yankees starter.  Also, consider the timing: the season will be about 1/4 over by the time Andy gets to NY.  It would probably take a month for everyone to realize that he sucks and isn’t getting better.  At that point, assuming he was willing to go back on the road to rejoin the AAA squad somewhere, and further assuming he clears waivers, then he would presumably need at least another 6 weeks to fix whatever’s wrong and convince everyone he can come back AGAIN and be effective.  So now it’s August 1.  By that time, the rotation will probably already have stablized itself in some fashion.  So Andy would have only two months left in the regular to try to establish some kind of role for himself that he could use as a launching pad for a post season start.

I guess my point is, the comeback only seems to make sense if Andy can establish himself as a playoff-worthy SP.  He doesn’t need the money and nothing short of another WS ring is really going to enhance his resume.  And while I’m sure he would love being part of the team, he’s enough of a professional that I don’t think he would enjoy it if he weren’t a successful and productive member of the team.  So I really don’t see a struggling AP going back down to the minors on the off chance of relaunching a second comeback so that MAYBE he could figure into the Yankees’ postseason rotation.

What if every pitcher were Mariano?

I could have done without watching that video. Where’s Kate ?

Just caught up on Sunday’s gamechatter. I wish there was a game today so I could use “The house is NOT clean!” This needs to become a thing.