The Curse of Jerry Hairston, Jr./Eric Hinske:

Thursday, December 20, 2012

NYDN: Yankees’ proposed deal with Ticketmaster draws protest over restrictions on resale of ticket

“There was no threat (to any individuals not to attend protest). It’s all bs,” said the source. “This group is funded by StubHub and StubHub is worried about its sales. Yankee fans don’t like StubHub.”

I’m having a tough time reconciling that with this.

Ticketmaster is expected to set minimum prices for at least some resale tickets. The agreement would dump the ticket exchange operated by StubHub, which allowed season ticket holders to easily sell their tickets at whatever price the market would bear, often below face value, potentially undercutting sales at the box office.

So the fans are upset that sales at the box office are being undercut by Stubhub?

How about this.  Put a more compelling product on the field and watch your ticket sales increase.


--Posted at 9:15 am by SG / 45 Comments | - (0)


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Ticketmaster is also a shitty company that charges you extra for printing your own tickets. There’s a reason people like Louis CK are finding ways to bypass them. For cheap (20$ish) events buying through Ticketmaster can double the price due to bullshit fees.

There is no way fans are calling for Ticketmaster over Stubhub.

I LOVE Stub hub and HATE T.M.  As I told my boys, we may have gone to our last Yankee game. At least it was a good one - last night of the 2012 reg season, $15 a ticket, the night we clinched the East (during the game with a Balt loss…but who cares). The place was going wild. Cano and Grandy had 2 HRs each.  Of course they scored more runs in that game then they did the entire playoffs.

[2] With ticketmaster that ticket would have been 25 and ~45 dollars after service, delivery and convenience fees. TM is a scam and the Yankees are scum for getting into bed with them and screwing their fans.

I have been a season ticket holder since 1998. The “Saturday” plan used to be 12 or 13 Saturday games. Since DNYS opened, the plan also includes 3 mid-week games that otherwise would have no chance of selling out. Usually day games against the likes of KC or SEA. Since I can’t get to every game I turn to StubHub. The last few years I’ve had to sell $28 tickets below face value just to get something in return. Now I can’t do that? I guess this will be the last year I renew my tickets (already paid for 2013). Really don’t see how this will help box office tickets sales when season ticket holders stop renewing. Where did Hal get that finance degree?

Now I can’t do that?

I think they basically don’t care. They want fewer people paying higher prices, and they decided reselling through StubHub was weakening that strategy. They are trying to be a luxury product and baseball, even Yankees baseball, just isn’t.

Empty seats project a luxury image better than low resale prices?

Exactly. They have 81 home games a year in a stadium that holds 50,000. If you want sellouts, you need to sell a lot of tickets. Plus access to live games helps grow the fanbase, which is the real value of the Yankees name, not access to New York’s upper class.

Steve Swindal pulling a Joba/Pineda was the last night of the Yankee dynasty.

This fact shocked me, I wish I could remember where I saw it but it was during a series against Seattle. 

It would be cheaper to fly to Seattle, stay in a luxury hotel for two nights and watch all three games of a three game series from the most expensive seats in the house than it would be to go to a three game series against the Mariners at DNYS.

I never verified the claim, but that is insane if true.

...and you could buy the game tickets on StubHub.

[9] That might actually be true.

[9] Doing the math it’s probably ultimately unrealistic, but the fact that it could seem reasonable at first blush tells you all you need to know about Yankee ticket prices.

I can see paying a bit of a premium for a team that wins 95+ games year in and year out. But they next 2-3 maybe even 4 years the Yankees will be struggling to break 90 wins.

[4] No that’s not true at all.  You can still post the tickets on Stubhub, but you now have to mail the paper tickets.  So basically, people can no longer buy your Wednesday night ticket, 2 hours before the game and print it from their computer…unless you use Ticketmaster.  If I understand correctly, Ticketmaster also has a resale feature.  So now you could instead sell your ticket on Ticketmaster, and the person can print the ticket.  That’s the difference, not that you can’t sell your ticket - or even that you can’t sell it on Stubhub - but that the person buying the ticket can no longer print it from Stubhub.

[9] Well, which seats?  Do you mean the most expensive seats in DNYS?  That doesn’t seem so suprising then.  You could probably fly to Seattle and do a luxury hotel for what, total of $1500?  So most expensive DNYS seats $500 more per game than Seattle?  So?

What seats are you comparing to?  There are $40 face value seats at DNYS after all.  I think there are field-level seats for $80.  I doubt you could get the air fare for that.

We complain about a lot of stuff here. The question to me is, where does RLYW fit in the grand scheme of things? Are we truly representative of a vast untapped pool of dissatisfaction and frustration in general Yankeedom? Perhaps the vanguard of a coming revolutionary movement, in which ordinary fans everywhere will tear up their season ticket packages to protest the current regime? Or out-of-touch ivory tower elites, foolish would-be liberators doomed to defeat once the proletarians of the countryside ignore our calls for shared struggle?

[16] Are those our only two options?

I think most fans are pissed that the Yankees haven’t done more this off-season.  I think most fans don’t understand how the words “Yankees” and “budget” go together w/o the words “do not have a” in between them.  I think a lot of people have issues with the new stadium, most notably prices of everything, and the fact that it isn’t the old stadium.

As for results…?  If the Yankees are a 90-95 win team this year, their attendance will be similar to the last several years, and more based on things completely outside of their control (weather, economy, what other teams do), than on what they do with ticket prices, etc.

Attendance has declined ~100k each of the last three years, even as the economy has somewhat improved.

[18] Could be for several reasons.  Ticket prices, the way the team has played, weather, travel prices, etc.  Or even other NYC area events.

Also, I looked at attendance numbers…for how much Yankees are alienating fans…they were 2nd in overall attendance.  87% capacity appears poor at first glance, but they were 6th in capacity.  Also again comparing to Seattle…Seattle was 26th in attendance, and dead last in capacity (~44%).  So you can see why Seattle’s tickets are dirt-cheap.

To me, it appears that the Yankees need to more tweak their business model when it comes to things like ticket prices.  They certainly aren’t having difficulty selling tickets.  That’s not to say they could do *more*.  Whether it is making the game experience better, targeted ticket price reduction (certain sections, reducing prices for midweek games, etc), or whatever.  Certainly, if performance falls off greatly it could impact attendance.  At the same time, if they put up similar performance with more home-grown players, I think attendance could increase.

[17,19] My question was grandiose, emotional, and meant to incite. As usual, your responses were rational, level-headed, and fair. No fun.

I would like to complain about Mike K. responding rationally to Lord Jon.

I don’t spend a lot of time on the Red Sox sites, but I have had the impression that they’re mostly all like “Theo’s a genius,” or whoever that guy is they have now.

ETA:  That impression is mostly based on SOSH.

It is interesting. As [18] notes, the attendance is down.  I have had the same 20 game package each year of DNYS in the same upper deck location, and this year, no matter what the actual reported attendance was, it was CLEAR that there were fewer people.  In fact I think there was maybe 1 game I went to this year (including Game 4 ALDS) that my row was full. and I almost never saw the same people around me at any game - meaning that there were fewer package sales (My package is that my first game is the 2nd home game of the year, and then every 4th home game - it ends up being a mix of weeknight and weekend games).

Now, one point in their favor, is that the price of my ticket with the 20 game plan is $20/seat.  And, that price is the same for 2013 as it was for 2009 when they moved - to me that means that the lack of demand has kept them from even doing the usual small increases every year or two, for fear of even fewer renewals.

Basically the only reason I keep the package, is because I like to have some games in advance to plan on going to with people.  If I can’t use any of them, I usually give the seats away to someone here in my office (midtown NYC right near Penn Station - so an easy trip up to the Stadium).  I find that better than the $6 I would get for a Wednesday night game against the Twins online, though I do like having the StubHub ticket printing option, I went to the clincher against the Orioles in the ALDS getting a ticket last minute in the 10th row or so behind 1B for like $100.  Was glad I went, since obviously it was their last win of the year…

The new Stadium has been a total failure in my opinion. Yankees lashing out at imaginary scapegoats instead of looking in the mirror at their insane ticket prices. This is a very sad story in my opinion. Snuggles mentioned Louis C.K. in his first post. There’s something to be said for being on the right side of the cultural winds. The Yankees are projecting a greedy image, backed by irresponsible actions. It’s really disgusting that people are going to get ripped off before even stepping into their car to go to the game. They are going to get ripped off just for printing out the tickets. How very sad. I’m still optimistic that this team can compete for the AL East crown, but it’s been a very dreary offseason. This story right here just made it much worse. Going to the old Stadium had the cache of a rock concert—or something equivalent—awesome energy level and experience. Now at the new place, you can feel your stomach drop while printing the tickets—you can get blockaded from your preferred parking garage before a playoff game (happened to me, I was let through the blockade, tough to do a U-Turn on the Grand Concourse, thanks NYPD)

Man, oh, man. The new Stadium is everything a libertine feared. I’ll say it again: sad. Very sad. Also, the place could use some more color. A brightly colored mural or two. It’s way too white and gray. Hm.

[23] I agree with….almost all of that (I don’t drive there so I can’t comment on that part).  I just figured I was finally old enough that I can tell people how it “used to be” - as if the Justice HR in Game 6 of the 2000 ALCS was the equivalent of watching the Mick in his prime or something.

I just blame Levine for it all.

Or maybe I’m just finally old.  Thoughts for a cold winter day, indeed.

[24] Is is cold back East? It was like -24 this AM, I think it made it to 0 around noon. It’s all the way up to ~15 now! This is the first time I’ve been looking forward to going home for the holidays because it will be warmer.

[25] Currently 42 here in Queens. Wouldn’t mind a little cold weather here actually.

[25] Toasty, although I’d prefer sub freezing temperatures to the standard cold and rainy of the early Southern New England winters.

[25-27] I meant more metaphoricaly, rather than cold as an actual temperature.  December has been probably above average as far as temperature, but that isn’t as poetic sounding (of course, I’m an accountant, so what do I know about poetic…).

[28] Filing corporate Taxes on a Snowy Evening?

On a different expensive ticket note—

I’m going to London soon and want to see a Premier League game.  I know I will have to pay like crazy for aftermarket tickets, but can anyone recommend the best reseller?

As an aspiring and likely future 1%er, I can comfortably say that premium seats at YS are priced batshit insane and I won’t pay for them.  I sat just above the “Coors Field” sign over the umpires’ tunnel behind home plate in Coors Field.  For $60.  Clayton Kershaw was pitching.  I could see the four seamers rise.

Rangers nearing one-year deal with AJ Schmuckzinski.  Why shouldn’t we sign him for one-year?

[30] I have a few friends who might have some insight.

Why shouldn’t we sign him for one-year?

No reason that I can think of besides perhaps he wouldn’t accept a one-year deal from New York for some reason? That’s possible, I suppose.

That’s the second deal that Texas signed this offseason that I think that the Yankees should have done (Soria being the first).

Is this such a big deal? Sell the tix on Craigslist or eBay whatever price you want.

Every day is cold when you’re a Yankee fan.

[35] Still no day of buys. It’s an anti-consumer move.

Day of bi’s…sounds like every day for Mel Hall.

Oh, BUYS.  Sorry.

[23] There’s something to be said for being on the right side of the cultural winds. The Yankees are projecting a greedy image, backed by irresponsible actions.

Yeah, at risk of boring you all by repeating something I wrote a couple years ago, I’m more or less only a Yankee fan at this point because of this site. I have always rejected facile parallels between sports and politics.  (I.e., rooting for a low-revenue team is somehow virtuous, a populist act—as if the Twins or Mariners or whatever aren’t owned by multimillionaires, and as if their players were all factory workers.)  I will still reject them, because they are facile.  But it is not fun to root for a franchise that so consistently disrespects the portion of its fans that I identify with most.

I just blame Levine for it all.

This is potentially massively unfair to Lon Trost.

Agree about DNYS. Just don’t see why a home run was the moment to mumble it.
I had limited season tickets since 1983. After 2 seasons at DNYS we let them go - when they started foisting the weekday tickets on weekend plan holders after already depriving them of opening day and such.

But it’s not just the tickets. It’s the moat, the rapidity with which the slope takes you away from the field, and the lack of energy.  The sense of control - no way will you get anything here you haven’t paid for! No more kids slowly sneaking their way into great empty seats by the end of the game… oh, why bother? It’s all too late.

[37] So CL and ebay block you from doing that? Or am I missing something? Is this an issue with the electronic tickets? I can’t see how, if you have a paper ticket, you can’t go post it on CL the day of the game for whatever price you want. That’s usually how I grab good seats at decents prices for when the Yankees come to Baltimore.

yeah, but then you have to interact with people face to face, right?

[20 & 21] We all have our roles to play, however boring they might be.


[42] With stubhub you could print official tickets from your home machine, You can’t do that with ebay/CL. I suppose you could meet up in person with CL, but Ebay isn’t as feasible.

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