The Curse of Jerry Hairston, Jr./Eric Hinske:
 

Thursday, October 26, 2017

NY Times: Joe Girardi Is Out as Yankees’ Manager

After a decade in the job that included a championship season in 2009, Joe Girardi is out as manager of the Yankees.

The 53-year-old Girardi announced his departure in an emailed statement on Thursday morning, saying, “With a heavy heart, I come to you because the Yankees have decided not to bring me back.” The statement went on to thank everyone from the Steinbrenner family to General Manager Brian Cashman to his coaches and other team personnel, and it concluded with Girardi saying that the “passion and excitement” of the 2017 postseason would “remain in my heart forever.”

In a separate statement, issued by the Yankees, Cashman said that he wanted to thank Girardi “for his 10 years of hard work and service” and that the team had “decided to pursue alternatives for the managerial position.”

This postseason was both exhilarating and painfully disappointing for Girardi and the Yankees, ending in a loss in Game 7 of the American League Championship Series. Two other managers — the Washington Nationals’ Dusty Baker and the Boston Red Sox’ John Farrell — lost their jobs this month after their teams were ousted from the postseason. Girardi becomes the third.

I’m shocked.  Not that Girardi is leaving, but that it’s because the Yankees have decided they didn’t want to bring him back.

I hope they have a good replacement in mind, because for all his faults Girardi was probably in the top 10 of all MLB managers and it won’t be that easy to replace him.

--Posted at 10:53 am by SG / 250 Comments | - (0)

Comments

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I like Girardi. I think it could have been a “we want a guy who’ll be consistent for another 3-5 years to guide the kids and we think that Joe will snap before that.” He did seem pretty at the end of his rope this postseason.

[40] If that happens I’d be cool with Ibanez. But I think that’s because I am terrified of how likable he is.

[45] Because he’s a workaholic and he loves being as close to baseball as possible? I don’t think this is actually happening, mind.

Cash is undoubtedly a super smart guy, but he DOES seem like a prick. And I don’t think rappelling once a year for charity, or sleeping on the sidewalk makes him not a prick.

[102] He probably is, kind of get that vibe too. But he’s also more straightforward and honest than the majority of people in his position so maybe that bluntness contributes to the vibe?

I also think Cashman enjoys taking on a “villain” status so to speak. After taking abuse from ownership, especially George, for so many years I don’t think it’s a surprise he’s taking full advantage of his new power in the franchise, even if it has a my way or the highway feel to it.

[102] & [103] - Agreed, but just like me not caring that Girardi wasn’t a great media guy as long as he does his job well, same with Cashman.

I don’t love puppet managers though. Coaches and GM’s should be on the same page but I never got the sense that they weren’t.  Other than Sonny in the playoffs, it’s hard to point to people who were acquired and not used or used improperly.

What I kind of don’t like about all of this is the way all these negative stories about Girardi leaked yesterday. You want to let the guy go, that’s fine, but let’s not turn into the Red Sox.

[105] I think the Yankees may be a bit surprised by the reaction to this news and are doing some damage control.  I don’t like it either.

What are the negative stories? That he wasn’t personable? Is that really negative?

I did not see a lot of negativity more like he’s been great but now its time for someone with a slightly different approach to get the most out of the team.  Only two managers have been around longer.  The Yankees did the same with Torre and Casey both of whom were far more successful than Girardi.

Marchand must really have not like Girardi because he’s gone out of his way to get his potshots in after the fact. Which just makes MArchand seem like a tool.

It doesn’t strike me as bad as the Red Sox, who outright slander their old managers on the way out, but yeah, all of these guys suddenly piping up about their critiques that they’ve never made public until now is not a good look.

As for Marchand, yeah, he’s always been particularly harsh regarding Girardi.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that some of these stories about Cashman and Girardi having an obviously strained relationship did not show up until Girardi was not brought back.  It’s like some of the media were sitting on these for a while.

Then again, I haven’t seen much about any specific incidents, more vague allusions.  So maybe it’s not something that you’d write about if Girardi was still around.  With Cashman recommending him not being brought back, maybe now it’s suddenly more obvious.

Or like Teix’s critique. Girardi managed him for 8 years and he didn’t say a word about him and now he’s gone and it’s “Oh yeah, Girardi is tiring.”

[110] - No, it’s not nearly as bad as insinuating Francona has a substance abuse problem and hopefully it is just the press doing things on their own because Joe wasn’t the best media guy.

Still, I’d just rather it not happen at all.

Edit:
[112] - Yeah, Teix on the Michael Kay show is the most uncomfortable thing that can’t have me completely write it off…

I dunno, the beat guys have to protect their access—they have to deal with Girardi every day.  And if Teix’s complaint is that Girardi is not a super boss (rather than he’s an awful boss) why make life more difficult by airing that?  So if Girardi was a bit of a jerk but not Rogers Hornsby-level, I’m not
surprised he managed to stick around for a while, nor am I surprised to see some pretty mild negatives now that he’s gone.

112 Well he’s certainly not going to say anything while he’s playing for Girardi so now he’s free to talk and its not like he killed Girardi, his criticism was mild and tempered and it seems to me he’s allowed to say his piece.  This was not like Torre sliming Arod or Jorge complaining about his mistreatment. Or should he keep his trap shut?

Plus Teix just seems like a total red-ass. I kinda take his thoughts with a grain of salt.

[116] Yeah, Teix has always seemed kinda douchebaggy, so his complaining about Girardi means nothing to me.  I am curious about the other stories though - I didn’t see anything but Marchand’s article.  What should I be googling, or can someone post a link? Someone here mentioned Judge of all people not being supportive of Joe, which I find shocking. 

And despite some of Girardi’s faults with his decision-making, I would have to say there is no way Torre would have won the 2009 WS with that team.  So thanks for that, Joe!

[116]  Really?  He might be a jerk but he never seemed like a red-ass.  And those segments he did for YES were very funny and showed a willingness to make fun of himself.

Tex was not looking to bury Girardi, Kay had to drag an opinion out of him and it was like well I’m getting paid for this so I really should answer Michael’s questions.  Better that then some Jeter cliches.

Is this the Judge thing people are talking about, or is there something else?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/judge-backs-girardi-win-believed-team-article-1.3557250

[120] Yeah. When you see it live, for a second it’s like he either can’t understand why that is the question for the time, then it is like, they weren’t even thinking of Joe at all, or that they would be happy for him. Then he understands the question, and there is a pause while he decides whether to answer the question and how, and his j-chip kicks in and he produces the Jeter answer.

The video won’t play for me, but that kind of makes me think the players won’t miss him much.  Ironically (is this really irony? whatever) one of the things I really liked about Girardi was batting Judge second and never wavering on it.

OTOH it took him a long time to move him to the 3/4 slots. As late as the end of May it was Holliday 3rd, Castro 4th, Judge 5th.

[116] [117] ??? Seriously? Tex kept trying to play a few years back on what turned out to be a broken leg

Honestly, I thought his reaction was more like… why would it be any more special for Joe than any of the rest of it? Is there some special Joe issue here I’m missing? Maybe there’s another Joe they mean and I’m missing the point?

That’s what the pause looked like to me.

[122] Except when he kept Judge batting fourth for all the weeks of the slump.

BTW, the Yankees should have won another ten games this season. So that is on Girardi, especially if you want to credit him for previous years winning above their pythag.

Effing expats.

I heard that Astros have roof closed for sound advantage. Looking back Twins won all four games each time at dome in 87 and 91. I haven’t researched how games went in 92 and 93 for Jays or Phillies playing at Trop in 08. I think noise is big deal in Houston

Is Houston a railroad town ? What’s the deal with train? I thought team was all about space program

Seriously ? You’ve never heard the NASA train whistle at liftoff ?

So Guriel’s an asshole, huh?

132 WOW! Big time. I’m sure we’ll hear some BS rationalization but looks like he was caught in the act.

[132, 133] What’d he do ? Other than stuff like pretending that NASA sounds a train whistle during launches, I mean.

http://brobible.com/sports/article/astros-yuli-guriel-yu-darvish-world-series/

Morrow is the only good non-Jansen reliever the Dodgers have. Why I thought the Yanks could’ve taken them.

136 He was cheap.

I have a feeling Roberts may be available soon too.

138 No thanks. There’s raw analytics and the ability to interpret it correctly. Am I the only one who has spelled ‘interpret’ wrong most of their life?

After his second-inning home run off of Yu Darvish, Gurriel motioned at his own eyes in the dugout in what appeared to be a mock-like gesture toward the Dodgers starter.

“I know he’s remorseful,” Hinch said of Gurriel.

I know he’s remorseful said no one of Guriel.  Stros really are douchey..

Fuck that asshole, I would bench his ass for a game

I would suspend him for game 4 and possibly 5 if I were MLB.  1 game is probably enough.

1 game for the most racist action he could think to take?

Yu Darvish said it best. Houston has Asian American fans too. Or had Asian American fans, if he only gets one game.

1 game is a light suspension.

1 game in the world series is not a light suspension.

Let’s be real, MLB might come down hard but not until next year. Brady didn’t get suspended for the Superbowl.

Did Tom Brady do something racist on the field? I don’t follow Football.

I disagree regarding the harshness of a 1 game suspension. If that’s the case, I’ll be cancelling my mlb.tv subscription for next year.

Tom Brady got caught cheating in the game before the Super Bowl.

Would you prefer he gets 10 games after the season than 1 or 2 in the World Series?

I was thinking more like a season.

John Rocker got 14 games.  I’m not trying to excuse what he did or diminish it in any way. It was really bad and I actually proposed the suspension as one of the harshest punishments in sports history (at least recent sports history). People usually don’t get suspended until the next season.

In historical context, what he did was very mild. Think about Ty Cobb or other players refusing to play with or against negroes. Think about the very public, large scale, even statutory racism.

The modern context, of course, is hang him, and high.

That’s actually a measure of progress.

But IF anyone was offended he apologizes.

I think he’ll get a game.

Apparently there’s a new book that argues persuasively that Ty Cobb, while no saint, was the victim of some very bad PR and in particular was not the racist ogre he’s usually portrayed as.

None of which excuses Gurriel.  Add an extra game for that stupid hair.

It does really point out a glaring flaw in MLB’s policing of the game. The commissioner’s office needs to act swiftly and head this shit off at the pass.

We need an Vice President of Stupid Hair and Bad Goatees.

What truly amazes me was the nonchalance of his gesture it was done not in anger as those things usually are but completely matter of factly.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/924325201629863938

This would be a smart way to overcome the curse of Jerry Hairston Jr. Now what to do with Eric Hinske?

[155] Bench coach!

Say what you will about the Yankees’ outdated grooming policies, but the would have prevented an abomination like Gurriel’s hair.

Also Dave Roberts is really a terrible game manager.  Would not be surprised to see him gone.

[129] Didn’t help the Twins in any series against the Yankees.

[131, 134] Its amazing that Houstonians can hear those train whistles at liftoff all the way from Brevard County FL. 

So mocking other teams seems to the Astros’ thing? And its not just silly team handshakes and gestures, but the race of opposing players?  The Dodgers really need to come back and take this series.  Or at least a Dodger pitcher needs to make a statement when Gurriel is batting.

[158] As someone who was at some of those Twins-Yankees playoff games at the Metrodome, crowd noise isn’t really an issue when easily half the fans there were Yankees fans and the other half is moms in jean jackets who only care about starting the wave to occupy their overly-denimed children.

Rosenthal also reporting the Yanks sent a letter to every club saying they’re all welcome to interview any yankee coach.

[158] Every team should be allowed one (1) use of Bob Gibson per playoff series. You get all the benefits of sports vigilantism, without any of the fear of having your pitcher get run.

More support for Coney as the next skipper: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/david-cone-ideal-candidate-yankees-article-1.3595501

There is no way in hell Cone takes that job.  I think he still loves the nightlife, he’s got to boogie, and managing takes up way too much time.

Maybe not, but he’d be the most fun choice available, assuming Time Traveling Billy Martin isn’t around.

160 So that would eliminate Espada and Thompson.  Have the Yankees at least started the interview process?

Gurriel’s suspension: 5 games. In 2018.

Ok, then bean him out of the game if he plays.

I suspect Cone would be really good. Hairston’s an uneuphonious name.

Benching a player in this context seems ridiculous. If he’s instrumental to the team’s chances, you’re punishing everyone ELSE on the team; in the meanwhile, he doesn’t play but gets paid.

You want to punish him, punish HIM. Dock him money. By which I don’t mean to join the discussion of how bad what he did might have been or not, but simply to point out that the suggested punishment doesn’t seem well considered.

Weak. And no money?

168 That’s true of every suspension, Sanchez for instance

Jerry Hairston, Jr., eh? LOL

Will it be the double curse then?

[152] Been known for some time that much of what people think they know about Ty Cobb ain’t so.

While there are many stories centering around Cobb’s alleged racial intolerance during his playing years, there are scant documented incidents of racially motivated acts.

Five years after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, Cobb publicly supported blacks and whites playing baseball together, adding, “Certainly it is okay for them to play. I see no reason in the world why we shouldn’t compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man; in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.”[14] Using even stronger language, Cobb told the Sporting News in 1952 that “the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly.”[136] In 1953, black newspapers cited his praise for Brooklyn Dodgers’ catcher Roy Campanella, who Cobb said was “among the all-time best catchers” in baseball.[137] Following Campanella’s accident that left him paralyzed, the Dodgers staged a tribute game where tens of thousands of spectators silently held lit matches above their heads. Cobb wrote the Dodgers owner to show appreciation “for what you did for this fine man.”[138] Cobb also stated that Willie Mays was the “only player I’d pay money to see.”[138] In the obituaries that ran in the black press following Cobb’s death, he was praised for “[speaking] in favor of racial freedom in baseball.” [139]

Some historians, including Wesley Fricks, Dan Holmes, and Charles Leerhsen have defended Cobb against unfair portrayals of him in popular culture since his death. A noted case is the book written by sportswriter Al Stump in the months after Cobb died in 1961. Stump was later discredited when it became known that he had stolen items belonging to Cobb and also betrayed the access Cobb gave him in his final months. As a result of the movie Cobb which starred Tommy Lee Jones, there are many myths surrounding Cobb’s life, including one that he sharpened his spikes to inflict wounds to opposing players.[140] Leerhsen’s book Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty presents primary evidence in contradiction to some of the more negative charges against Cobb.[17]

In 2013, Cobb’s grandson, Herschel Cobb, published a book about his grandfather titled Heart of a Tiger, Growing Up With My Grandfather, Ty Cobb.[141] In this book, Herschel Cobb provides an inside view of his grandfather’s kindness and generosity. There is also an interesting chapter where teenager Herschel Cobb confronts Al Stump and provides a first-hand account of Stump’s dishonesty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Cobb#Reported_violence_and_bigotry

I get the sense Manfred knew that if he suspended Gurriel during the Series, he’d appeal as is his right, and then the suspension wouldn’t happen until next season anyway.  I suppose the positive is that when he serves the suspension it will be news again, and serve as another reminder that you shouldn’t do or say racist shit.

Jeff Conine, an original Marlin and former special assistant to then-team president David Samson, told the Miami Herald that he turned down a diminished role within the organization under the new ownership of Derek Jeter and Bruce Sherman.

It would have cut his salary in half to about $50,000, according to the newspaper.

New Miami Marlins CEO Derek Jeter and the team’s ownership group told former Reds manager Jack McKeon there’s no spot for him with the team, according to a report by FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman, and Heyman says a recent meeting with Tony Perez left the Hall of Famer and former Cincinnati Reds great with a bad taste in his mouth.

Meanwhile he wants to cut salary almost in half to $55 million if they can trade Stanton while paying himself $5 million per.  Why would MLB let the new owners buy this team if they weren’t willing to spend to make a winner?

Never been a better reason to hit someone intentionally.

Could it be that fans will look back on Loria as the lesser of two evils?  He bought them two titles after all.

Especially when he trades Stanton for Sandy Leon.

Loria wasn’t the owner in 1997. He bought the team during all those bizarre backroom machinations with the Expos and the Red Sox where MLB bought the Expos and John Henry went from owning the Marlins to the Red Sox.

It seems that Jeter’s intention is to lose as cheaply as possible while waiting for the minors to develop. That’s fine, but the treatment of their “legends” has been odd.

[177] Would he consider Austin Romine instead?

Why embarrass Conine for chump change? MLB needs teams to have a minimum salary requirement to qualify for profit sharing.

I’m just glad Jeter’s on the Marlins because you know if he weren’t people would be talking about him as manager and he’d be a terrible manager so phew.

Stanton signs thru 2027 with a team option in 2028. That won’t end well.

Can Cone be the bench coach? Not much more work than announcing - prepare some stats and facts in other team, use sabremetrics and help manager not be an idiot, and voila! Still allows for night life, fun times, etc.

I agree that managers seem to peak and then fade. See Torre, Scosia, Davey Johnson on the Mets…if someone has some real data on it that would be cool.

Bench coach/pitching coach.

Looks like It’s not only the Yankees that can’t hit Morton

The Morton thing is very puzzling

So this is where the great Dodger pen is supposed to win it.

Ridiculous looking Houston fans.

Go expats!

OK Kenley faux Mo you got two to work with to knot it for the expats.

Even better.

Cannot root for Dodgers, will not root for Astros, not watching.

Expats vs Texas douches, easy call.

No reason to root for either one.

More a matter of rooting against. I have a hierarchy townies, Mutts, Stros and Rangers plus the Dodgers do have a NY history from the golden days of NY baseball.

That’s bizarre to me, bop. How does a team from nowhere with no history except losing make that list, let alone merit even enough sheer attention to get a nickname (even if it’s just a one-letter shortening of the official name).

196 Does irrationality need a justification?  In any case during the ALCS something about that team I just didn’t like plus I have antipathy towards the state in general.

Justus, Abreu and Florial age 19 all doing well in Arizona.

Judge and Justus. Coming to arenas nationwide in 2020.

Was game 1 the only outstanding post season game of Kershaw’s career?

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