Jeter may do all the things that Posada says.  If so, Jeter should learn a way to continue doing these things as a bench player.  That would be “doing what he needs to do to bring winning baseball to this organization”.

Maybe Jeter will still turn it around, and be a 2-ish WAR player for the year.  Unfortunately, that looks less and less likely…

Jeter has flat out been a lot better than his replacements this year.  A lot.  To say Nunez should play over Jeter because of what has happened since he went down… well Posada is right.

[2] Amen.

From Lohud:

Phil Hughes is finished for the day. He went 6.1 innings for Double-A Trenton, allowing one run on three hits and two walks. He struck out eight.

For some updates from the scene, check our good friend Erik Boland’s twitter feed. Erik was in Trenton and reports that Hughes threw 88 pitches, 64 or strikes. He talked to one scout who said Hughes’ command was “much better.” Apparently Hughes was at 92 mph with his fastball, topping out at 94

[2] I agree as well.  My exasperation with Jeter does not preclude recognizing he’s the best shortstop on the team.

[2] Sadly, this is true.

Who is Logan Kensing?  Why is Logan Kensing?  And can Kensing sing?

[2] FanGraphs has Jeter as ~8 runs better than Nunez, BBRef ~2 runs better, in about 2.5 times as much playing time.  Is that a lot?  Of course, they also get some extra benefit by having Gardner/Swisher on top of the lineup instead of Jeter, plus they’ll PH for Nunez and won’t for Jeter, even though they’re roughly equal on offense (rate basis), and Pena is better than either on defense.  You also won’t ever see Nunez DH, which will allow them to either have a better DH against lefties, OR let Jones DH and allow Gardner to play LF which is better.  Add to that the fact that Nunez still has lots of time and room to grow, while Jeter appears to be fading fast…

Hey, I’ve been as big of a Jeter supporter as there is.  And I’m going to be losing a “told you so” bet to Ted later this year.  But I don’t think the team is any better if Jeter is in the lineup this year, which means they should probably play Nunez to see if he can improve for next year.  SG I’m sure could run some numbers for us, if he was of a mind.

FanGraphs has Jeter as ~8 runs better than Nunez, BBRef ~2 runs better, in about 2.5 times as much playing time.  Is that a lot?

When one (two) are negative and Jeter is positive, yes.  That is a lot.

Jeter hasn’t been DFA’d? I thought that’s how the Yankees succeeded in doing better of late.

[9] A lot of it is defense, and if you assume Nunez will keep making errors at the same rate.  On offense, he’s been as good/better than Jeter.  Jeter’s advantage is almost entirely in the fact he’s played more.

The width on the estimate of Nunez’s value must be huge based on the sample size - I’d want to see how he and Jeter project going forward before taking a position.  Maybe <SG> did that already.

On offense, he’s been as good/better than Jeter.  Jeter’s advantage is almost entirely in the fact he’s played more.

Nunez is effectively where he projected to be.  His average projection heading into the year was .267/.305/.368, .296 wOBA and he’s at .250/.299.370 with a .300 wOBA.  I suppose he’s exceeding his projection slightly once you account for the decline in run environment.

So the question is more along the lines of if we think Jeter can hit closer to his projections going forward than he has to this point.  His average projection heading into the year was .283/.351/.394, .332 wOBA and I think his revised projection would be around .278/.345/.378, .324.

Not sure we can expect Nunez to be as good as Jeter defensively unless something just clicks.  He looks like someone who needs some serious work on his defensive game, the kind of work that’s going to have to come in the offseason IMO.

So yeah, it’s probably the right call that the best shortstop for the Yankees in their organization right now is still Jeter, but I don’t know how many more months that will be true.  It’s not inconceivable that Nunez has/will improve(d) and Jeter has/will decline(d) more than the projections say.

This is a little off-topic, but I’m still waiting for someone to explain how exactly Jeter is “a leader” in the clubhouse.  I hear and read this a lot, but it strikes me that there’s very little corroboration.  I never knew Mattingly to be press-hungry, but stories always got out about specific instances of his leadership in the clubhouse. Likewise, there are stories of Arod talking to this player, this pitcher, the pitchers talking to each other, Tex, etc.

The only instance of Jeter’s “leadership” in the clubhouse that I can remember is his refusal to defend A-Rod back in waning days of the Torre era. 

So, can it be that Jeter is more successful at keeping his vaunted, legendary leadership a secret, in which case he should go into covert ops…

Or is it that it’s a heap of PR nonsense?  I never much liked Captain Intangibles.  I did like Captain Clutch tho.

Waitaminute.  Baseball Prospectus told me that Jeter was the worst defender ever to play the game.  And Nunez is WORSE than that?

“the worst defender ever to play the game”

Counting, not rate stats.  Nunez isn’t going to play until he’s 41.

This is a little off-topic, but I’m still waiting for someone to explain how exactly Jeter is “a leader” in the clubhouse. 

Goodness, what is it about the inspirational value of the fist pump that folks can’t understand. Or calm eyes. Or The Flip. Or grit, and gravel, and edge. Jeter gots an edge!

I fear this taking the Cal Ripken direction, where you’re either on Jeter’s side in the clubhouse or you aren’t.  I wonder if A-Rod is quietly amused.

[16]  We don’t know that yet.

I fear this taking the Cal Ripken direction, where you’re either on Jeter’s side in the clubhouse or you aren’t.  I wonder if A-Rod is quietly amused.

Quietly? I’m sure he commissioned another centaur portrait in celebration.

What do you give the athlete who has everything?  Another centaur portrait never goes amiss.

The only Jeter leadership story I ever heard was about him scolding Bernie Williams for being late to a postseason game once.

But then again, I suppose a true leader doesn’t make make things public.

14. I think that’s a little harsh. For two press related incidents, right off the top of my head, I can remember him supporting Chuck Knoblauch and Giambi.

[14] I think it’s fair to say that Jeter’s been a great and deeply respected player, and has per se provided leadership by example.

Re: Jeter the leader, count the hardware.

He has, like 37 bathrooms. Thats a lot of hardware.

[14]  You seem to be asking for objective proof of a purely subjective phenomenon.  If Posada and the other players regard Jeter as a leader, and a person whose very example inspires them to play hard, conduct themselves appropriately, etc., then he IS a leader.  Now, these guys may be overestimating the importance of Jeter’s day-to-day “leadership” in making the team better, but that doesn’t make DJ any less of a leader according to his teammates’ perceptions and values.

I can relate to this somewhat.  I have worked with some people that I would have described glowingly as “leaders,” and whom I would have credited with making the organization stronger.  However, I may not have been able to come up with any specific, concrete examples of their leadership that would have impressed an outsider.  In this case, we’re all outsiders, and I think it’s only reasonable to take Posada’s word for Jeter’s leadership reputation within the clubhouse unless we actually think he’s lying about it for some reason.

[11] - The point was you can’t say Jeter is better because of having more playing time.  Taking their current rates and projecting more playing time for Nunez and Pena will only increase the gap, not cut it.

Offensively both Jeter and Nunez have almost identical wOBA so the difference is all defensive. 

Infact, since Jeter, Nunez, and Pena all have is a negative impact over the average hitter (not replacement SS) Jeter getting more PA actually HURTS Jeter in this comparison. 

So playing time would help Jeter’s case AND the fact that he bats leadoff and Nunez/Pena don’t helps Jeter’s case.

Just sayin…

[26]  While what you say may be true of Jeter, I don’t think it was very leader-y of him to excuse Posada’s shitfit over being dropped in the order.

I never much liked Captain Intangibles.

I believe this phrase was coined at SoSH.

[28] - Unless he said one thing in public but made his true feelings know in the clubhouse only.  That’s exactly the way it should be done. 

Read his quote again he didn’t excuse Posada, he just said if he though he did something wrong he’d tell him.  Well maybe he DID tell him.

“so the difference is all defensive.”

Which should make you skeptical of the claim that Jeter is better, it seems to me.

[30]  That’s not what the front office thought.

The front office was wrong.

[33]  Because…?

Because you keep clubhouse matters and differences in the clubhouse. You don’t fight through the press, especially in this market.  Say what you want about Torre (and I’d likely agree) but for the most part he was great at that.

So maybe they were wrong to leak their displeasure, but that does not mean their displeasure had no basis.

[22], [23], [24], [26]:

I wasn’t trying to be harsh.  I’ve always admired Jeter.  I’ve always been a bit nonplused, though, by the “aura” around him.

I’m familiar with the rationale running through the replies.  Essentially it comes down to: leading by example is just as effective as being a vocal, responsive, active leader, a true leader never makes his leadership public, and sometimes leadership means keeping your powder dry for when it’s really needed.  I don’t necessarily disagree, theoretically, with any of those points. 

However, it seems that Jeter can’t just be an excellent baseball player with an enviable postseason performance history, he has to be everything that is right and noble as well.

Leading by example, in other words, turning in a superior performance to the best of your ability, while keeping your nose clean, and not being a jerk, is admirable.  Is it superlative leadership?  Hardly.

I had forgotten the Knoblauch, and, particularly, the Giambi incidents.  I particularly remember being really impressed with Jeter around the time of the Giambi thing.  The other day, I heard the story about how Mattingly basically told Mel Hall to cut it out when he and others were going after Bernie when he first got to the team.  I’m aware of the clubhouse Omerta—I’m also aware that it’s routinely broken.  I guess I’m just surprised that more of these Jeter as Leader stories, or at least snippets, haven’t come to light with such a high profile player, with such a VAUNTED legacy of leadership.

If we are talking about Posada then yes and no. They were right to be displeased and NORMALLY I’d agree they were wrong to say so publically but I heard the reason they said something in game was because it was on Fox. The story was starting to gain momentum and Girardi had to do his in game interview so they feared how Joe would respond if ambushed on air with questions.  They didnt think dealing with that on his feet played to his strengths.

If you are talking about the front office expressing their displeasure with Jeter then no. I don’t thin they were right to do it or have it. I think Jeter straddled of saying something to the press but telling them nothing perfectly.

I’m not trying to run Jeter down.  But I can’t remember any of those “took a young guy under his wing” stories about him, like you hear about lots of other players.  That’s pretty valuable leadership it seems to me, and it makes a nice story for the writers so you hear about it a lot.  Maybe it happens, who knows, but it’s not the kind of thing that gets kept secret, like closed-door meetings.  If he never does it, it doesn’t make him a bad person or NOT a leader though.

[39] I seem to remember early in Cano’s career - 2005 or 2006 - the press was asking him questions and Cano was responding while reading the paper, never looking at the person asking him the questions.  Jeter and ARod apparently took Cano aside and told him that wasn’t the way you dealt with the press in New York.  You pay attention and treat them with respect, and since then that’s what Cano has done.  I don’t recall if ARod brought it to Jeter’s attention or if Jeter thought ARod could communicate with Cano better and invited him.

Supposedly, in this new book about Jeter there are some stories that demonstrate more in-clubhouse leadership things from Jeter that have been kept mostly secret.  Haven’t read it, so IDK…