The Curse of Jerry Hairston, Jr./Eric Hinske:
 

Thursday, January 19, 2017

MLB.com: Coop, 3 it is! Bagwell, Raines, Pudge elected to HOF

NEW YORK—For Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines, a long wait has ended. For Ivan Rodriguez, there was no wait at all.

Those three players will be part of the Hall of Fame’s Class of 2017, taking their place alongside the game’s legends in Cooperstown, N.Y., on July 30, with Commissioner Emeritus Bud Selig and Braves vice chairman John Schuerholz, who were elected last month by the 16-member Today’s Game Committee. The news arrived on Wednesday evening, when Hall of Fame president Jeff Idelson announced the Baseball Writers’ Association of America’s results live on MLB Network and MLB.com.
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Another player with a somewhat surprising total was Yankees catcher Jorge Posada, who didn’t make the 5-percent cut to remain, finishing with 17 votes at 3.8 percent. Manny Ramirez, who twice failed drug tests and was twice suspended, had 23.8 percent in his first year, and was the only other first-year candidate aside from Guerrero to remain carry over. Like Posada, 15 other players will not be back next year. Eleven didn’t get a vote.

Given what we’re learning about quantifying catcher defense and how that makes Posada’s defense look, I’m not sure he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.  But he was a damn good player for a damn good team for good stretch of time and likely deserved at least a longer look than he ended up getting.

Trevor Hoffman got 70+% and Posada got 3.8%?  Does that make any sense at all?

Anyhoo, congratulations to Raines, Bagwell and Rodriguez.  All deserving candidates in my opinion.

--Posted at 9:24 am by SG / 27 Comments | - (0)

Comments

Page 1 of 1 pages:

Posada finished 19th in votes, 18th in bWAR, and 18th in JAWS.  Love him but you can how he got so few votes.

Besides, I put him second behind Munson for Yankee catchers who deserve to be in the Hall.

[1] how much of that is adjusted for catchers?

Catchers are significantly underrepresented in the hall. Part of it is probably due to the fact that good defensive catchers aren’t really flashy (not that defense would help Posada’s argument). But it also seems that voters are punishing them for having shorter careers and shorter peaks than basically any other position.

The nature of the position limits counting stats, which tend to be highly valued for hall voting. I’m not saying that Posada deserves to be in the hall, but he certainly shouldn’t be a one and done ballot guy.

Yeah, catchers don’t get as many plate appearances in a season and don’t play as many seasons, but that doesn’t seem to get considered in HOF voting.

Whatever, I’m sure he’s fine with his five rings and millions of dollars.

When was Po ever fine with ANYTHING?

[4] He’s pissing on his hands right now, prepping for a comeback.

Posada wasn’t much of a defensive catcher, but he was tough as hell. I was a few rows behind the 3rd base dugout the night the Yankees came back from a 9-0 deficit against Texas.

There was a collision involving Teixeira and Posada at the plate later in the game. I don’t think I’ve seen too many harder hits in any sport. Posada held on to the ball and came up glaring at Tex. Posada hit a walk off HR later.

Yeah, exactly, SG, I’m fine with him not making it, but that no one even gave him a second thought was weak. Although, honestly, I think I blame the current HoF format more than anything. Hard to give votes to lesser guys when there’s tons of good people on the ballot, plus a shortened time on the ballot.

On another note, “Coop, 3 it is”? Who in the world thought that that was the pun to make there?

[6] That was a great game.  I also enjoyed Posada standing on 2nd base with his fists in the air after Grady Little left Pedro out a few batters too long.

So, I guess if I-Rod gets in so quickly, the writers are softening on steroid-inflated players? He certainly was great at throwing and catching, no doubt, but the other half of his game was helped significantly by chemistry.  Not to mention that his durability behind the plate should be in question because of the juice.  Maybe even his throwing velocity.

Writers are funny bunch, how they justify this guy over that guy.  Oh well…

[7]  What’s the pun?

It’s a play on the song, “Whoomp, There It is.”

Jesus Mary and Joseph that’s bad.

The entirety of Wrexx ‘n Effex is working for MLBAM.  They’ve been waiting for their chance.

Yanks taking Betances to arbitration. That seems so stupid.  He would probably settle for 1 million more. If he wins it costs them $2 million, but if they value a long association with him or want to send a positive message to other players, it sure seems like the wrong approach.  Clearly they act like they are pinching pennies.

Does the writer write the headline? Or is that a different person?

[14] Generally it’s a different person.  Not sure if that’s the case at MLB.com, but I sure hope for the writer’s sake it is.

[2] All good points.

Looking at WAR and JAWS, it’s reasonable to say that Posada was one of the 15 - 20 best catchers of all time. Pudge will be the 18th catcher in the hall, and there’s an average of 21 players at each regular position enshrined, so if you want to say that the hall is short 3 catchers, Posada is behind the following guys according to JAWS:  Mauer, Simmons, Munson, Tenace, and Freehan. Tenace didn’t play enough catcher for me, so let’s put him aside.  After that, Posada is looking up at the other 4, but competes well, especially if you want to give him extra credit for being on so many playoff teams. Mauer should have plenty of support, but any of these other guys deserves a Hall of Fame campaign going forward. Like I said, as a Yankee fan I’d start with Munson, who ranks 8th in peak WAR, 13th in Jaws, and 15th in WAR, safely ahead of Posada on all counts.

[15] When writing for digital-first pubs, my experience is staff writers include headlines when loading a story onto a CMS. Freelancers just kick copy to an editor who slaps a head on there, and in print, it still flows that way because of the vagaries of page layout. The one story I did for MLBAM as a freelancer, I sent it over no head, but that would be fairly normal, FWIW.

Posada walked a lot, which gave him a high OBP.  But, I think some voters value hits a lot more than walks.  In 2003 and 2004, his OBP were .405 and .400 but his BA were .281 and .272.. If he had the same OBP but had batted over .300, I think voters would be more impressed.

With as crowded of a ballot as it was this year, Posada had no chance. Bad year to become eligible..

[16] Don’t forget that a significant driver is that voters have 10 choices. Wouldn’t it be sad if the reason a guy like Posada falls off the ballot in 1 year is because the omnipotent voters have to hold a spot for Clemens and Bonds for 10 years to punish them for PEDs, only to eventually let them in?

Well, since they put slimmed down Piazza in the HoF they basically had to put slimmed down Pudge in too.

Shacka lacka shacka lacka

[12] Tag Team. Wrexx-n-Effex did Rump Shaker. #ZoomZoomZoomAndaBoomBoom

I liked having posada because a catcher who can have an OBP of 380 while popping 20-25 HRs is amazingly valuable; and helps explain why the Yankees won 95 games a year. BUT only 5 AS teams, one top5 MVP, with poor defense and possibly the worst base runner ever, he is not a HOFer.  However if Sanchez had posadas career I think we would all be pretty happy.

I know it’s a weird position to have—I don’t think Posada is a HOFer, but I wanted him to get a bit more love on the ballot.  I get that the ballot is crowded, but that’s not Posada’s fault, it’s the fault of dumbasses like Murray Chass.

[25] I’m in the same place. Really it’s just some winter-training for the upcoming complaint season.

[23] I stand corrected. Rookie mistake.

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