The Curse of Jerry Hairston, Jr./Eric Hinske:
 

Tuesday, July 31, 2012

CSN Chicago: Kaplan: Trio of suitors for Dempster

Baseball sources have confirmed to me that three teams are in play for Ryan Dempster and he will approve a deal to any of the three teams if the Cubs can agree on a suitable return in exchange for the veteran right-hander who is enjoying one of the best seasons of his career.

The Los Angeles Dodgers, who have long been Dempster’s preferred destination will have to increase their offer as the Texas Rangers and New York Yankees have stepped up their pursuit over the last 48 hours.

With Roy Oswalt having another poor performance on Monday evening, the Rangers have decided to upgrade their rotation and are looking at all available options including Dempster and Matt Garza.

I don’t see Dempster filling a need, but it doesn’t hurt the Yankees to pretend they’re involved if only to make the price for Texas a bit steeper.  Anyway, I think Dempster is a non-issue but we can use this entry for general trade deadline discussion.

--Posted at 10:15 am by SG / 90 Comments | - (0)

Comments

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From the previous thread - maybe they’re trying to grab Soriano as well, with Theo eating like $25M of the $36M he’s owed in 13 and 14?

The only big name I’d be interested in is Headley, but with ARod he just doesn’t make that much sense, and the price will be crazy. I think the Yankees will make a run at Upton in the off-season.

Outside of minor deals, I don’t really see any good moves for the Yankees here at the deadline. As SG pointed out in the last thread, the Yankees best move is most likely to wait for the injured legion to return/call up a few of the guys in the high minors.

I’d take Soriano for 12 million a year. The defensive metrics like him as a LF (which I can’t believe after watching him play 2B, but maybe he is good in the OF) and he is a good hitter, has no platoon and I like him.

Eh.  If you think the Yankees are horrible situational hitters now, wait until you watch Soriano flailing at sliders in the dirt with runners on base.

BTW, in trade-deadline news. It is hilarious that the Phillies are sellers. Good choice Cliff Lee, good choice.

Me, I have no idea what to expect out of Nova.  My up and down expectations of what to expect from him is something I haven’t experienced since all the way back to Phil Hughes (anyone remember that name?). 

I’d say if they can get someone (not necessarily Dempster) proven in a package centered around Hughes or Nova, I’d take it.

[4] Eh.  If you think the Yankees are horrible situational hitters now, wait until you watch Soriano flailing at sliders in the dirt with runners on base

Certainly a flawed guy, but for $5M a year, and to get us an OFer only committed through 2014? There’s certainly a number where it works, right?

I demand Eric Hinske!

FWIW, Nomaas guys wanted Geovany Soto. Doesn’t look like the Rangers paid a huge price there.

If they throw sliders in the dirt we might at least get a wild pitch out of it which is better then we’re doing now.

4.  SG, for crying out loud, did you have to remind me of that mental picture of Soriano in the 03 World Series?


No. 5.  Yeah, I wouldn’t want Cliff Lee or Greg Maddox or anyone else that didn’t want to be here earlier.

No. 8. For his great defense, right!

FWIW, it would be nice if Nova was Super tonight. He’s been a bit off of late.

Welp, Victorino and Pence are off the market. Who’s going to be our Ichiro replacement now??

[12] Did you really want either?

Yeah, neither were such amazing upgrades that I’d be okay with the cost needed to acquire them. If Pence was arbitration eligible through 2014, then yeah, but he is not.

I don’t get the idea of centering the Pence deal on a stud catcher, though. I mean, yeah, Ruiz will not be there forever, but he’s also not in any imminent danger of leaving, so shouldn’t they have spotlighted a greater area of need?

[15] Who knows what type of value the Dodgers had in the minors. As long as it’s a good player, you can almost always flip it into something you actually need, right?

Is Ruiz expendable now?

Who knows what type of value the Dodgers had in the minors. As long as it’s a good player, you can almost always flip it into something you actually need, right?

Fair enough. You just rarely see teams pick up young stud catchers unless they plan on using them.

Is Ruiz expendable now?

What an amazing pick-up that would be.

[18] Yes! He is a hell of a player and is under control for one more season. But the odds of getting him is close to zero

Jim Bowden on Pence

Giants type of hardnosed player.

Seriously, Bowden? Seriously?

Does Ryan Dempster play 3B?

[21] - No but he can pitch the 8th.

The only big name I’d be interested in is Headley, but with ARod he just doesn’t make that much sense, and the price will be crazy.

For just this season Headley makes sense.  Stick him at 3rd.  If ARod has any setbacks it’s a non-issue.  If ARod is back early September, you’ve got only maybe 20 games left.  So ARod DH’s maybe 15 of them and plays 3rd 5, Headley can get some DH/days off.  Playoffs Headley at 3rd, ARod DH.  Only time it’s an issue is potentially 4 games in WS…deal with later.

For next year…I think there are ways to make it work.  My favorite is still turn ARod into a RF.  I think he’s plenty athletic enough - and has MORE than enough of an arm - to make the transition.  Especially if they tell him in November to start working on it.  It’s a risk yes, but then you’ve got a solid 3B - potentially one they can work out a long-term, reasonable extension with now - and RF covered for the next several years.  Hopefully until 2015 when some guys from the minors are ready and ARod transitions to DH for the last few years of his contract.

But I agree the price will probably be exhorbitant.

I’d say if they can get someone (not necessarily Dempster) proven in a package centered around Hughes or Nova, I’d take it.

That’s an awful idea!  You’re getting at most 3 months of Dempster.  Over the 2 months in the RS he’s a fraction of a win upgrade, and in the PS - if Pettitte is back - he’s the 4th starter and may impact only 4 games.  Even as the 3rd starter he’d only impact 5, at most.  And you do that for trading all of next year for Hughes, or potentially 4 years of Nova?  Plus potentially some other pieces as well?  That’s very short-term thinking that won’t really help the team all that much this year, IMHO.

I don’t want Dempster. Sure, our offense is falling apart so maybe it’s “all-in” on pitching, but our pitching hasn’t been the problem and I view Pettitte as our “acquisition” when he comes back. I mean, in October would Dempster be in the rotation? He’s really good but it’d be CC/Kiroda/Pettitte before him and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nova as the 4th option if they use a 4th starter.

Also, it means prospects being given up. Prospects that could either help the team in the future or possibly be used for an off-season fantasy dream Upton trade.

All these Dempster and Yankees posts remind me of Soriano. We were all sure they were full of shit, until they weren’t.

[7] There’s a number for sure, but…Soriano hasn’t been this good with the bat since 2008, though he was close in 2010.  He’s also 36.  For his defense, he was great in LF in 2006 and 2007 (by TotalZone), around average in 2008, and pretty awful the last 3 years.  He’s been above average so far this year, but that’s one of the reasons you use several years of defensive data.

I’m thinking more dead-cat bounce than anything.  And while you may want to take advantage, remember how happy everyone was to get Pudge Rodriguez several years ago?  I’m thinking Soriano doesn’t really have much left.  May be a better platoon partner for Ichiro than Jones - potentially letting Jones DH against a lefty - but I don’t think will add much this year, and is a great candidate for dropping off a cliff next year.  Of course there is a price that it works for…but I doubt we’d get it.

My favorite is still turn ARod into a RF

Are the positional adjustments for 3B and RF similar? If so, and ARod is still fine at 3B, why the switch? If they’re not similar, I imagine RF takes more of a hit than 3B. So as the bat gets worse, the overall impact is tempered if he’s playing 3B, contrast with him being more exposed offensively as a corner OF, all while playing a new position in his late 30’s? I can’t understand this one dude - sorry.

The fix for ARod is to just get closer to what he was projected to do. SLG needs to be closer to 5 than to 4 even if it means he hits .250.

MRI says Teix has “no structural damage”.  http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8218119/new-york-yankees-first-baseman-mark-teixeira-no-structural-damage-left-wrist-mri-revealed

Amputation set for Friday.  Or maybe that was they expect him back Friday, not sure…

All these Dempster and Yankees posts remind me of Soriano. We were all sure they were full of shit, until they weren’t.

Are you referring to them signing Soriano? I don’t recall us not believing that the Yankees would do it. I think it was more of a matter of us just HOPING that they wouldn’t.

[30] Yes - that’s what I’m referring to. I was pretty sure 95% of us thought it typical Boras-Heyman puppeteering, until the post showed up that said they actually signed Soriano.

[28]  RF would cost ARod 10 runs in positional adjustment.  He hasn’t worn down this year, but in theory, RF would be less wear and tear on him.  Because if his hip is still any issue, he has a lot of quick lateral movements at 3B, whereas RF would be more an issue of running.  Of course it’s just a theory, RF may actually wear him down more.  But, if RF is less exhausting, potentially ARod would stay healthier, and hit better.

Moving ARod isn’t just a matter of moving Arod though.  It’s a matter of filling positions.  If they can acquire Headley, he’s a very-good 3B, who is under 30, and could potentially fill that position for several years.  So they could have the option of moving ARod to a different position, or moving Headley.  Which makes more sense?  I think moving ARod does.

Again, my goal isn’t to move ARod off of 3rd, because he’s fine there.  But if they can acquire a 3B now who could be part of the team next year or for many years, I also don’t think we should say, “ARod is already there, don’t do it”.  Headley would help now at 3rd, and would solve RF for several years by moving ARod there.

[32] From experience (granted I haven’t had the surgery ARod did) lateral movement has far more wear and tear than linear movement.

I think once you accept the fact that Alex is not going to bow out of the last years of his contract, you have to put him somewhere. Where is that, where he’d have the most impact, and the least propect of injury ? Having him as RF/DH and 3B option off the bench may well be the best.

It’s not so much how he’d compare against other RF options, it’s whether RF is the best way to get the most value from him while we have to have him.

Given that it’s harder to find a solid 3B than a corner OF, if you stumble on the opportunity, you take it while it’s there.

Just reading more chatter that makes it sound like it is the Yankees and the Dodgers as the final two in on Dempster. The Cubs seem to be mostly using the Yankees to make the Dodgers up their offer, but still. Ugh. Ryan Dempster would be such a bad pickup. Where would you even rank him among the Yankees top five pitchers when Pettitte returns? Behind CC and Kuroda, I think, and behind Pettitte, as well. What the heck is the point of this?

[35] agree. Of course theYankees thus far are unwilling to give up 2 low-A guys, one of whom is having a terrible year. So it doesn’t seem too serious.

[34] I agree

[24] - Dempster doesn’t really make sense because he’d walk at the end of the year, but if there is a sign and trade deal there you’d have to think about it.  Hughes is only under team control for a year and a half.  It’s not really short term thinking anymore.

And we are 8 hours away from 1,000 days…

Jonathan is going to be seriously conflicted now. Craig Breslow traded to the Sox. On the one hand, he can actually talk to Breslow more often. On the other hand, he is now a dreaded Red Sox player.

Murti seems to be saying Dempster is a real possibility.  Rothschild and Hendry like him a lot.  Don’t really see where this is our most pressing need and do you really won’t to give up one of our serious prospects for a 35yo who was mediocre last year though good this year.

Why Dempsetr? This is non sense

[32] But if they can acquire a 3B now who could be part of the team next year or for many years, I also don’t think we should say, “ARod is already there, don’t do it


Oh, in the context of an opportunity to get a nice young 3B, absolutely explore moving him. Heck, he’s at DH for a bunch of games *already*. By the time that problem is enough to be a problem, it’s not a problem, or something like that. Makig him a full time DH and get a platoon OF solution is even a good idea.  Without context, though, I was just questioning the push for ARod to RF. There has to be some impetus that makes it worth doing, today at least.

The Rangers just upped the ante in the catchers batting under .200 arms race.

And now they’re interested in Chris fucking Perez??! Even for nothing, I don’t see what Perez adds to this roster.

Teix MRI negative.

Fa-you.

[38] IDK maybe…I think if they had any interest in signing Dempster to an extension immediately they wouldn’t have waited until the deadline.  And he’s still what, 36?  I think they’d get more value out of extending Hughes…

[43] Yeah, sorry I wasn’t clear.  I wouldn’t move him just for the sake of moving him.  RF I think he can handle and is a clear position of need next year, potentially for several more years.  So as Pin wrote, just trying to find the place to get the most value out of him.  I’d LOVE if Laird maximized his potential, or Segedin was able to stick at 3rd, or they moved Austin back or…something.  But finding good, young, available 3B is difficult, so…

Pena at SS tonight.  That’ll help the offense.

Ugh. Dodgers are out of the Dempster sweepstakes. It is pretty much just the Yankees left. This is annoying.

Now is when Cashman goes “Dempster? More like Dumpster.”

Right?

Hopefully.

Really hope it is “Hey, if the Dodgers out, you’re not getting anything but ____ from us.” With the blank being nothing much.

They like Bichette and Gumbs.  Too much?  Dempster diving?

And now Jim Bowden is tweeting that Yankees may have acquired Dempster…trying to get confirmation.

WTF is the point of this?  I wouldn’t take him for free.

ESPN is talking “Maybe Phelps.”

Omigod, that would be AWFUL.

Cito Culver would be fine.

Purely anecdotal observations, but every time I’ve watched A-Rod play a pop-up at 3B, he’s like the anti-Jeter… awkward, making routine catches much harder than they should be.  I can’t really envision him holding down an OF position.  I think he could be a good defensive 1B, but with Teix locked in there, I think his future position is DH and that’s about it.

Who looks at this team and says “What they need is another above-average but not great starting pitcher”?!?!

Who will cost a lot of prospects. It is nuts.

Dempster’s too young for us anyhow.

Now tweets saying Dempster to Texas. THAT makes sense. They could use an above-average pitcher.

Phew. Buster Olney now says Texas got him. Phew. Hopefully Theo got one of their top prospects.

Now there are tweets that Dempster’s going to Texas instead.

Olney says Dempster to Texas. Bullet dodged.

So happy. Pissed that Cash couldn’t get a bat. But happy that they didn’t deal for Dempster.

Kruk is soooo dumb. “Rangers will start hitting now that they have Dempster.” Lordy.

[66]
Did he really say that? That’s awesome.

Yes, he actually said that. That the pressure will now be off them so they’ll start hitting. Man, soooo dumb.

So we got no one? Blow up this team.

I do so love the Phillies collapse.

Fuck you so much, Cliff Lee.

[57] Eh, he still makes the catches.  And part of his issue is going back.  Seems to charge bunts fine, so if he can still charge well, perhaps playing deeper will mitigate any problems on fly balls.  So if you can’t move him to 1st and can find a better 3B, is he more valuable as a DH or RF?  I think they would need to at least TRY RF.  All assumes they can get an upgrade at 3rd of course…

Hahahah!

The Yankees got Casey McGhee for Chad Qualls!

HILARIOUS!

[66] Eh.  There’s still a good chance that several bats will make it through waivers and be available early next month.  Potentially better than available now as more teams fall out of it, and certainly some that could have been had now, will be cheaper.  So now Cash gets a couple of weeks to see how Teix heals, to see if ARod is progressing well, and to see if any other players get hurt.

Eh.  There’s still a good chance that several bats will make it through waivers and be available early next month.  Potentially better than available now as more teams fall out of it, and certainly some that could have been had now, will be cheaper.  So now Cash gets a couple of weeks to see how Teix heals, to see if ARod is progressing well, and to see if any other players get hurt.

I’d prefer they protect their lead with some offense now rather than wait while the lead dwindles.

72 No joy in Mudville, riding that train.

[71] - I don’t think it’s a movement issue, I think he just has a hard time judging popups.  If that would translate to judging fly balls who knows but it doesn’t make you feel confident.

[72]
Why is this a better option than Brandon Laird?

I dunno, I guess they just think McGhee is better than Laird. They were going to lose Qualls anyways when Joba came back. Now they just drop Pena and they don’t have to make any other moves.

[72] You lie!

Seriously, someone else wanted Chad Qualls?  Well there goes all the Quallsproof material I’d been working on for the stretch run.

77. I like giving youth a chance, but Casey has had some good years at Milwaukee. He hit over 20 hrs and 104 rbi and .285 at the ML level -2010
Though he’s been a low avg hitter since, he is already used to the majors whereas Laird has very few abs in majors if I recall correctly. I guess that is the difference. Imagine that this is a depth move for most part.

The good thing is Girardi can’t use Qualls anymore, though he may call him at the airport tonight to see if he is really going.

How does he field?

Seriously - we picked up [-Qualls].
Who cares whether Casey’s any good at the bat?

And could the idea be that, if they’re going to bring Laird up, they’ll need to replace him at AAA? Is there some rule that says McGhee has to stay on the ML roster?

I think you care about getting McGehee because he stinks as much as Qualls.  Just in different ways.  Seems to me I’d rather have that roster spot going to DeWayne Wise.

[85]
Yes, but does he HAVE to take up the roster spot?

I doubt it was going to Wise.  Likely Casey or Pena or Laird or Nuney.

Joba to the show.

[74] Sure, but why waste trade chips now when they could get something even better later?  If they lose 3 games off the lead in the next 3 weeks that sucks…but chances are anyone they could get today wouldn’t help them any more than lose one less game.  So they lose that extra game but potentially get a better player who helps make that game back up…and is better for the team in the playoffs.

McGehee is an upgrade over Nix.  If they feel Laird is truly developing and would only play him vs. lefties, it probably makes sense to let him play in AAA every day.  It’s a bleh move but they got a potentially useful piece for a player they were going to DFA in a few hours.  How is this not a positive?

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