And when he did make contact if there was a runner on 1st and less then 2 outs…..

And when he did make contact if there was a runner on 1st and less then 2 outs…

Looks like he hit a ground ball in 107% of those situations in 2010….

Am I the only one excited they are about to give a should-be-platoon SS a 4 year $100M contract?

I felt constrained to retreat from that position, Ted, after it was pointed out that, even with his decreased productivity, he was probably the second most productive SS in the AL.
You may be more intreped than I am, however.

How about trading for Upton and converting him to SS?

Please, please, please, pretty please Cash no more then 3 years.  I think 90% of the comments lately have been about Jeter, and 9% on topics not related to baseball.  What would we talk about if he retired?

I wrote “intreped.”
Can I claim to have been drunk?

[8] Change your name to, say, Clay Hoadley, and I’ll believe you were drunk.

Pete, I won’t complain if the contract is three or less guaranteed years, but I fear 4 or more. I don’t actually care about the money as long as it doesn’t stop them from signing Lee, Pettitte, and Mo (which it won’t). But 2014 is going to be brutal enough with all the giant contracts without paying a 40 year old SS almost $20M.

[9] completely agree, my sentiments as well.

And mine.  Which we can smoke into our collective pipe dream and smoke.

[11] Or get drunk as Hoadley.

Good Lord.  Which we can stuff into our collective pipe and smoke.
Just call me drunken Claybot.
Can we please have us some edit button, powers that be?

[6] Where we’re going to celebrate.

[9] “I won’t complain…”  I dare you not to complain.  Can’t be done.  Personally, I’m excited about the prospect of a 40 year old Derek Jeter playing baseball.  His hairline is receding almost as fast as his bat speed so by 2014, he’s going to be forced to change his haircut.  The fact that he’ll be a bench player by then will just be insult to injury.  I’d like to see his poker face during a media session when that happens (hopefully all at once).

This new rep pretty much makes Clay king of this site, doesn’t it?

[15] King Clay Hoadley, whose dominion is rlyw.net.

[14] I’d give this post a 9.15 on the snarkometer.  Well done. Congratulations.

“The fact that he’ll be a bench player by then will just be insult to injury”

Doubt he’ll be on the bench due to injury at that point.

Is that pronounced snarKOmeter or SNArkoMEter?

I think snaKOmeter sounds more scientific, and we’re all about positivist statistical analysis here.

I busted open some old boxes of books in the closet.  I found Conrad’s The Nigger of the Narcissus and started re-reading it today.  I am enjoying it so much.  Anyone read it?

Don’t worry fans, Drunk Clay is sure to return at some point on Thanksgiving. There’s no way I’m cooking ~7 dishes without some serious aid.

[16] I prefer Tsar.

[22] What happened to “Comrade Hoadley?”

I am feeling very holiday-ey this week though. I’ll be baking for most of tomorrow. Anyone want cookies?

For serious, PM me with your address and I’ll send you something.

I read the classic comic The N Word of the Narcissus

[23] Comrade could mean Tsar in hiding.
[24] Really?  I think I’ll do that.  How could would it be to get a cookie in the mail?

[24] That’s mighty kind of you, Tsar Clay, showing largess to your subjects.  I’m going to my folks in upstate New York, where there’s bound to be way too much food.  I think I’ll do the turkey trot in Troy this year. 

[25] Did it have lots of pictures?

[26] You’ll have to wait and see how the cookie crumbles, nyuk nyuk.

First, I assert that Pedro has earned the right to append “(Snuggles)” to his moniker. Or handle. Or whatever you call it. Based on general blatant drunken-ness behaviour.

Next: I dare you not to complain.  Can’t be done.

Oh it’s on, Motherfarnsworther ! Like Donkey Kong. Snap ! The guantlet has been thrown. Or, rather, a mitten stuffed with D batteries. My money* is on shaked over Ted having to refrain from complaint.

Moving on to [9, 10] not that I disagree with the premise, but how big of a tipping point is the transition from 3 to 4 years ? I mean, we’re kinda blase and accepting and dare-i-say downright French about 3 years, but 4 years and it’s an outrage ? I say “meh” across the board. As was noted in an earlier {hopefully} sarcastic post, who are we gonna sign as SS, Willy Mo Pena ?

Finally, from the prior thread, although it is minor DRLYW heresy I think Javy deserves at least as much of a chance under the new pitching coach as AJ does, and I hope the Lee contract rumors if true is a ploy to tell Jetes “Sorry, we spent it all on Lee. And dinner for 8 in the DNYS Steak House. And hookers. But here’s 25/2 we found under the couch.”

*Not binding in any sense of a financial transaction.

[29] Re the middle paragraph about the Jeter contract, receding hairlines and impending doom, I am reminded of a game several of my law school profs used to play: “If you’re willing not to draw the line here, then why should it be drawn there?”  And they’d keep inching you along until you were forced to defend ridiculous positions. 

I’d like to give Jeter the shortest contract possible, recognize that two years won’t get it done with him, hold my nose at three, but fear being forced into a fourth.

(sniff)
I’m so proud!

[30]
That Zeno, he never goes out of style.

No wonder I’m zenophobic, nyuk nyuk.

What about just going to arbitration with Jeter, and living with a one year deal irrespective of the award?

Well, that should keep the casual walkers-by puzzled for quite some time…

/esoteric meme

[30] That’s kinda where I was going. Not a lot of emotional investment in 3 vs. 4, but fully willing to sieze on any opportunity for complaint during a long cold wet winter, since any position we take can be demonstrated to be ridiculous. But not genuine outrage.

“I’ll be baking”

I read this in the Grateful Dead sense based on your previous comments.  Not sure about getting a brownie in the mail under those conditions.

[34] There are plenty of teams willing to sign up for one year Jetes at arb levels. Not that I’d want to back up that assertion, but I believe it nevertheless in the absence of a challenge.

Oh, yes, I think arbitration for Jeter is quite likely.

[37] He could get a raise if the non-baseball oriented arbitrators buy into the intangible value argument that Close could pursue. I’m not sure how many teams want to go above $20m a year.

I’d rather see him go them give him four years, or even 3 years at much above $15m a year.

[38] You’re right. $60m over 4 years is far more likely. It’s not my money, but it’s still insane.

Make that $80m over 4 years.

I’d be happy going with Nunez and trying to get 2.7 WAR (the delta from SG‘s Friday post) out of the extra $80m over the next four years, so yeah, I’m invested.

[41] The eyeball test on Nunez after the call-up seemed to me he was as tight as a crab’s backside, which is water-tight. I saw a guy who got to a lot of balls, didn’t know what to do with the extra 1.5 seconds and then made an easy play into a close play with a terrible throw. Practically Damonesque at making routine plays exciting.

I think he’ll settle down when he lets go of the “Holy Veras I’m playing Bucky Effing Dent’s position at Yankee Fricking Stadium ! THROW IT ! THROW IT HARDEER THROW THE FREAKING BALL !!!!!!!!111!!1” panic pulse.

All he needs to make him right is a couple nights on the town with A-Rod and his leftovers and a weekend doing bong rips with Robbie.

Make that $80m over 4 years.

$60/4 is sounding like a bargain right now.

[29] Wow, you guys remember that.

[36] I guarantee all the cookies I make will be controlled substance free.

Cliff Lee’s hypothetical sixth year offends me more than Jeter’s hypothetical fourth. Just sayin’.

“$60/4 is sounding like a bargain right now.”

I’d prefer $60/3 to $60/4.  Are they going to outright Derek Jeter when he’s replacement level?

And I wouldn’t give Mo 2/36. Even 2/30 seems crazy, or 1/18, but well, ok, it’s Mo, and not my money.

Jeter, Jeter, Jeter think I’ll watch the news or read the Sunday Times magazine OMG Palin, Palin, Palin!

Mo wants two years at 18 per.

[49] I’m skeptical.

[48] What are you doing reading a post titled, “The Year Jeter Etc.” if you’re tired of the topic?

50 from Lohud FWIW

I’d give Palin no more than 4 at say 400K, but I’m worried we’d regret it in the third year.  As long as there’s a good alternative in place, maybe a veteran like Hucakbee, but it might be cheaper to take a flyer on a prospect like Paul (fils).

She’d opt out after two to spend more time with her money.

Mo wants two years at 18 per.

I’m totally into this.  A) If any Yankee deserves a victory lap, IMHO it’s Mo.  B) Every year he’s older, and yet he continues to not only be effective, but to be amazing.  One year, I know, it’ll end.  But he has seriously broken all of the projection systems, and I for one wouldn’t bet against him in 2012.  Perhaps most significantly C) there is only a small chance he gets his 600th save next year, and although it’s a meaningless stat for most of us, barring injury or that sudden cliff, in two years’ time Mo flips the 600 odometer and passes Hoffman on the all-time list, which is going to put a lot of asses in the seats and make for a teary-eyed me.  So I heartily approve.

Re: Jeter, I’m all for more money and fewer years.  Like Rilke, I’d prefer to see 3/$60 over 4/$60.

For now at least, Cashman isn’t budging off 3/45.  He also mentions there that arbitration won’t be offered to Jeter, thought doesn’t say anything about any other eligible player.  Just a hunch, but I don’t think Cashman is going to move off of 3/45 until the Jeter camp comes back with a reasonable counter-offer.

Now, what will Cashman consider reasonable?  I don’t mean reasonable that he would take it, but reasonable that he can work off it?  IDK if 5/100 is something he’ll hang up on, or negotiate off if.  I’m sure if Jeter comes back w/ 4/80, he’ll work off of that, and probably tell Jeter he can either take the money (3/54 maybe), or the years (4/60), but isn’t getting both.  Like the rest, I’d rather go w/ the former.

I’m also down with Mo for two years.  I think he’ll continue to be effective.  Don’t care about the AAV so long as it doesn’t create substantial opportunity costs.

[56] Agreed that Cashman is waiting for a counter-offer.  I’m inferring from the negotiations to this point that the Yankees aren’t going to bid against themselves and that they are saying that there needs to be a ceiling before they raise their offer.  They’re also willing to assert their leverage, as evidenced by Levine saying that Jeter is free to test the market.  No way he’s going to do better elsewhere.  I hope the team is willing to take the PR hit from idiots like Lupica if Jeter ultimately bolts (though that still seems highly unlikely). 

All the basic negotiation principles are on display here.

Questions for you guys: (1) Will the Yankees offer Jeter arb?, and (2) Will he accept?

As long as they claim to have a budget at or near $200m, I care about AAV, especially if the savings would go to a veteran SS/3B to spell Jeter/A-Rod and/or a Scott Downs type. I would really like Soriano, but I realize that isn’t happening.

[60] I hope they have enough money to resign Andy, Jeter and Mo and sign Lee and Downs. I don’t car about bench players becuase you can have them on the cheap in the summer.

OK, Jeter’s delusional, I’m mentally done with him.

What does it take to get Drew from Arizona?  Nunez, Romine and a live arm get it done?

Or maybe they should go for the Japanese SS?

[61]

I believe they are around $147M committed now before arb players.

If you assume Pettitte at $11M, Mo at $15M, Lee at $22M, that’s $196M.  Arb guys (Hughes, Joba, Logan) are another ~$5M, so $201M.

Jeter, who knows, but I wouldn’t go above $15M (unless it was a one-year deal) so $216M.  Downs puts them at ~$220M.

[63]
I agree with Rich, so I think snapper’s $220 figure is a very real problem.

[64] Concur.

I think the budget is much closer to $210M.

Of course, they could backload Lee’s deal, like they did with CC, and only have him at $15M for 2011.  They could also structure Mo’s deal with a 2nd year option with a big buyout.

[54] I declare you the winner of the thread. 

barring injury or that sudden cliff, in two years’ time Mo flips the 600 odometer and passes Hoffman Papelbon on the all-time list

Fixed.

[60] I said I didn’t care about AAV provided there are no substantial opportunity costs, which is substantially the same thing as you are saying, Rich.  Just a rather backwards way of putting it, I guess.

Perhaps Jeter, in his consummate captaincy and with his unparalleled focus upon team, with that unique capacity for putting team ahead of self, would agree to allow the team to pay him in intangibles?  Like respect, adulation, praise, good will, you know.
Obviously, at least the league minimum would have to be in cash.

Maybe they could Jeter a medal to make him happy.  Like in Love and Death, when Woody Allen’s oafish brother said about going to war, “Medals, Boris, we get medals.”

What does it take to get Drew from Arizona?  Nunez, Romine and a live arm get it done?

This is an escape hatch only used if Jeter doesn’t blink, right ? You can’t do this to put pressure on him and then sign him in the end. This is the Derek-Jeter-Not-On-The-Roster option.

Or maybe they should go for the Japanese SS?

Why would they post $100M plus the contract as a budget saving move ? I’d think its cheaper to sign Jeter and either give Nunez more time in the bigs, or orchestrate a deal like above.

“This is an escape hatch only used if Jeter doesn’t blink, right ? You can’t do this to put pressure on him and then sign him in the end. This is the Derek-Jeter-Not-On-The-Roster option.”

Well, at first it’s feeling out Ariz. for the price, but then I’d communicate it to Jeter’s agent.

I’d say, 3/45 stands as our offer, but we have a chance to get this great young SS, if we can do it the offer expires.

“Why would they post $100M plus the contract as a budget saving move ? I’d think its cheaper to sign Jeter and either give Nunez more time in the bigs, or orchestrate a deal like above. “

What makes you think the posting fee will be anywhere near that high?  I doubt it even approaches the posting fee for Dice-K.

But, part of the reason would be posting fees don’t count against the luxury tax.  So, a $30M posting fee costs $30M, $30M spent on Jeter costs $42M.

What makes you think the posting fee will be anywhere near that high?  I doubt it even approaches the posting fee for Dice-K.

Eh, just POOMA for the sake of discussion.

But, part of the reason would be posting fees don’t count against the luxury tax. 

Are we worried about what row of the spreadsheet this goes on ? Or is this about how much money they’re parting with ?

So, a $30M posting fee costs $30M, $30M spent on Jeter costs $42M.

Wait, isn’t it the money they pay Teix that is luxury taxed ? Or A-Rod ? Maybe Jeter’s $30M is all below the line, and it’s Gardner-Cervelli-Swisher-Nunez-Hughes-Aceves-Moseley-Golson that are all luxury tax money.

Which raindrop causes the flood ?

Plus, it’s $30M -PLUS- what you pay to the player. I’d prefer $30 to Jeter plus $12M to the league versus $30M to the Japanese team/league and $12M to the player.

If I had an edit button I could put the word “plus” into that last paragraph at least 2 more times.

Tigers closing in on deal with VMart.  The Sox never seemed intent on re-signing him.  I doubt Beltre will return either.  The Sox seem to have their sights set on acquiring Adrian Gonzalez and shifting Youkilis back to third.  I hope the Padres wait until the last minute to trade him elsewhere.

Wait, isn’t it the money they pay Teix that is luxury taxed ? Or A-Rod ? Maybe Jeter’s $30M is all below the line, and it’s Gardner-Cervelli-Swisher-Nunez-Hughes-Aceves-Moseley-Golson that are all luxury tax money.

Which raindrop causes the flood ?

We had this argument in the last thread. Yes, all of those salaries contribute to going over the threshold, but the difference is the guys you’ve listed are already signed and Jeter isn’t. Mix in the fact that Jeter’s performance likely won’t justify the contract and I have no problem with discussing his cost with the 40% added.

and I have no problem with discussing his cost with the 40% added.

Neither do I, unless you also try to dismiss the posting fee. Whether the money goes to our league as luxury tax, or to the other league as a posting fee, it’s still part of the cost whether it shows up in the “roster budget” or not.

[75] Red Sox will have the best draft in the AL if they let Beltre and VMart walk. That’s scary.

I’d be a bit leary about acquiring Stephen Drew.  He’s going to be 28 next year, and by BBRef his first year w/ better than 3 WAR was last year.  Plus he’s going to start getting expensive soon (and/or leave as a FA).  I mean, inquire, but don’t get hopes up that he’ll be worth the cost, or a long-term fix at SS.

[77]“Neither do I, unless you also try to dismiss the posting fee. Whether the money goes to our league as luxury tax, or to the other league as a posting fee, it’s still part of the cost whether it shows up in the “roster budget” or not.”

Of course not.  The point is that $50M to Derek Jeters costs the Yankees $70M cash. A $30M posting fee, and $20M contract costs them $58M cash.

For $12M less, you get three years of probably superior SS play, and then you still control the guy for 3 more seasons.